Posie Parker in the USA

McBride is also a public political figure, who was there that morning representing HRC in an official capacity at the Cannon House Office Building, encouraging Congress to support the sterilization of minor children in the guise of a human rights agenda of “acceptance” and “inclusion.” McBride was there that morning to argue that girls in school have no right to bodily privacy when changing for gym class or when first managing menstruation in what should be girls-only bathrooms. McBride was there to argue for an end to girls’ sports, because they want boys to be able to join the girls’ sports teams. McBride was there to overturn decades of women’s rights advocacy, at the head of a movement that has brutally silenced women who dissent.

Isn't it amazing how that could be turned around into 'horrible women attacking a poor defenceless innocuous transwoman who was minding her own business in her place of work :( "? So much lying and bullshit and propaganda. How the TRAs hate Posie, they're desperate to discredit her.

We give in to this, 'they' will be able to do anything. We will be putty. This is not a test. This is the real 1984.

...made me think of that Manic Street Preachers' song If you tolerate this then your children will be next.

The idea that ‘being unable to identify woman’ will lead to an erasure of rights and policies that only effect woman such as breastfeeding, periods, abortions etc is what I meant by straw man. The threat of men coming into woman’s spaces under self ID, is obviously very real as it’s what is being proposed as policy.

"teaming up"... even when women are not "teaming up", we are accused of it because of course they don't want us to team up. Strength in numbers. And when we do, we have to deny it.

THIS IS STILL DIVIDE AND CONQUER Putting women on the back foot. To have to deny, explain, defend, be confused, doubt, second guess. Are we teaming? what is teaming? Should we team? But with who... But, but but... Its a psychological brain freeze. IT IS A TACTIC, A WEAPON.

Did anyone notice in the LizGlitch, thread a parting comment by Liz? "...I hope at least this has been diversionary". DIVERSIONARY... exactly.

Wake up to the game women! Know our enemy. We don't have to be like them, but we have to know how they play the game (and they love the game, games are fun, mind games are even more fun).

My DH has always said that one of major the downfalls that women as a class suffer from is our ability to turn on each other. Be it at school, work or politics. Men do better at protecting any other man, regardless of his views, niceness, evilness or likeability, because they recognise better that that man represents them. It takes more for men to truly turn on men.

It doesn't matter whether patriarchy is to blame for this women's in-fighting, or anything else, I think that sadly and to my chagrin, to a large extent he is right. I expected more smarts from some women involved in the public divisions.

If we don't stop this ridiculous calling out for nothing at all, or for some bigger differences, women as a sex, a SEX, as a sex class, are done for, and some women will have done it to other women.

Again, this is not a test. This is 1984. This really is psychological warfare. Happening now, in real time. This is it what it looks like.

No I disagree completely with self ID, still wouldn’t rub shoulders or condone doing so with anti-woman organisations to fight it.

We're not fighting a straw man, Early. You can do what you like, obviously. But don't try to dictate to others what they should prioritise. I see this as the greatest threat to women's rights in a century.

"I won't be obeying the orders of elite left feminists any more than I will be obeying the orders of genderists or the orders of men or the orders of right wingers."

I dont like being bossed about

Tends to make me pissed off

Not sure what my point is here just trying to figure out what’s really going on!

I think it's just power struggles within GC activism, whether those partaking realise that's what they're doing or not. Human nature, I suppose.

Compare to the far more ruthless genderists though - where's the soul searching over their own bad actors (worse than any feminist bad actors, I might add) such as Karen White, or their own totalitarian tactics (baseball bats, vexatious litigation, etc)?

I'm not getting involved in GC activism power struggles other than to condemn them. All women welcome to do what they can, how they can, when they can, as they see fit.

early

Sorry if ive got this wrong but i thought you werent keen on self id

Or an i thinking of someone else

My opinion put simply - say you’re a woman who’s just been raped. What do you fear the most? What is the biggest issue? The man who did it to you or the transwoman at your refuge?
Say you fell pregnant from that rape and required an abortion, are you more thankful that you have the right to do so? Or would you not mind if you didn’t have rights to have one as long as the person who helped remove those rights, also faught for a transwoman to not perform the internal scan?

Woman’s rights and the issues surrounding them are the most important thing for woman in any situation, even if they do not realise it.
Woman’s rights are far more complex than the transgender movement. We mustn’t forget the real woman who need feminists in their corner, while fighting the straw man.

"I won't be obeying the orders of elite left feminists any more than I will be obeying the orders of genderists or the orders of men or the orders of right wingers."

Co-signed.

OldCrone that quote is from the law that has been in force for 15 years without losing the ability to define sex. There are exemptions that apply, allowing exclusions based on biological sex. I am in favour of strengthening those and clarifying when they apply. However, self-ID refers to the procedure of getting a GRC- a procedure that has been in place for quite a long time.

Funky you really don't seem to have much understanding of the law in this area. Do you think getting a GRC is based on self-ID? It's not, and the change to such a system is one of the things we're fighting against here. At present you need a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and proof that you've lived in your "acquired gender" for 2 years. Only around 3500 men have become legally women in the 15 years since the law was passed. Self-ID would open the floodgates to people who have other motivations for changing their legal sex, unrelated to a dislike of living as their natal sex.

As far as exemptions go, as I said in an earlier post:
What do you do if the person with their newly-issued birth certificate swears that they're not trans? And who decides what is 'a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim'? The courts could get very busy if a lot more people were getting GRCs.

I agree that the law in this area needs to be clarified and strengthened. But just allowing people to change their legal sex creates a legal nightmare.

I’ve noticed that a lot of Twitter GC feminists are academics. I really admire the likes of Jane Clare Jones and Rosa Freedman and I think they’re very brave to speak out, but sometimes I really struggle to follow what they’re saying. Posie on the other hand cuts through it all and sometimes she’s far more effective because of that.

Not sure what my point is here just trying to figure out what’s really going on!

I respect your morals merrymouse my issue is with the attitude that the trans issue is the most important issue and therefore we should work with whoever we can to fight it, even if their core morals are anti-woman.

I use the term ‘trans rights’ loosly in that post as I’m not really sure what term to use tbh. Anti self-ID, anti allowing trans people to be seen as their preffered sex, anti sex including gender. Anti-transitioning?

That WoLF piece from Natasha Chart is fantastic. She makes some excellent points. R0 has reproduced an important section below but it's very much worth reading the whole thing.

Where would the line be drawn? Or is there no line? As long as they don’t want ‘trans rights’ for whatever reason, theyre on our side?

I wouldn't write to my local MP on this issue as he has voted against gay marriage, so personally I would draw the line way before the Heritage Foundation.

However, which trans rights do you think people on MN don't want?

Not because we've been told to like them under a 3 line whip

This. I won't be obeying the orders of elite left feminists any more than I will be obeying the orders of genderists or the orders of men or the orders of right wingers.

Twitter feminists can try to create hierarchies out of GC resistance all they like. I won't be partaking.

Funkyfunkybeat12 you do realise girls having their womb cut out, before they really know if they will ever want to use it, does also affect their reproductive rights?

Earlywalker "The point is that ‘is it right to be teaming up with anti-woman protestors because they share the same views on trans people, albeit nost likely with different reasons behind their view?’"

Did you listen to the panel?

I expect you are using 'trans people's here as shorthand but not all the people identifying currently as trans will actually be trans. I think the desistance rate is growing.

Plus many are concerned that non-trans males will use all these new laws to access women for nefarious purposes, beat womem at sports, and recruit young people into a life time of drugs and surgery etc.

So please can we be very clear that many/most/all/some of us here are very concerned about the rights of trans people to live and work on peace.

We ate concerned for tans safety in every possible way, some have trans-identifying youth on their families, and are concerned about legal changes that will affect womem and children.

We need to unite.

I'm happy to stand alongside others who share my views on this even if they do not share other views.

Most of us do this all the time at work, at our kids school, at church etc. And we keep our humanity.

The ultimate aim in all of this is to protect woman’s rights, so why is teaming up with people who want to strip those rights away anyway, being condoned?

No-one is "teaming up" with anyone. Talking to people or even attending a meeting is NOT teaming up. Unless I "team up" with my postman daily, which is just weird (even though we have on occasion even discussed politics).

No-one "condones" anything. Posie is an autonomous individual we as individual women can agree or disagree with what she says or does but we're not part of some organisation issuing a press statement. No "condoning" going on.

MN is just a load of different women, and some men, chatting, exchanging ideas, discussing facts, evidence, forming opinions. I think this, possibly more than anything else, is why MN is so hated. And the women on here who command respect and trust - they've earned it the hard way over long periods of time often, by patient explaining, proven integrity, putting women and children first, evidence based assertions. Not because we've been told to like them under a 3 line whip.

I’m another poster who couldn’t watch the video at first. Now I have and I’m
Is that it? Seriously?
When I first heard about this I honestly thought Posie and Julia had invaded McBride’s privacy and threatened them. I saw GC feminists on Twitter talking about the right to feel safe. I don’t mind admitting I was worried.
I don’t see Posie and Julia threatening anyone. They don’t swear. They don’t even raise their voices. The worst you can say about it is that they entered a room without knocking (a room in the senate I gather, so not a private workplace) and that they interrupted a meeting.

I can understand TRAs trying to capitalise on it - if course they will. What I don’t understand is the reaction from some GC feminists although I get that the left are tribal.
What on earth is this really about? I feel like I’m the only one who doesn’t kniw what’s going on here.

It is absolutely monstrous.

Even if the result is the forced enslavement of all women, I am still not going to say that the word/meaning/concept/material reality of woman/female includes any man/male who wants it.

2 + 2 does not = 5... even with a gun to my head, or your head or your children's heads. We give in to this, 'they' will be able to do anything. We will be putty. This is not a test. This is the real 1984.

More on fundamentalist genderism being an aggressively classist ideology that has no interest in the actually marginalised - no matter what some very disingenuous posters suddenly becoming prolific on FWR would have you believe - from Lucy of the Deptford People's Project:

Statement from Working class community workers from Deptford. We are attending the women’s meeting at the House of Commons today. We would like to offer an explanation as to why this is necessary. See below

After many years of working at grass roots within our community we have recently been made aware of an issue that directly effects the working class and women in our area.

You must understand we are not graduate activists or or women’s rights campaigners. We are community workers and our concerns regarding changes to the GRA come from a lifetime of personal experience and having worked with some of the most marginalise people in our area.

The majority of our recent projects have been working with rough sleepers, the homeless and those that have been excluded from society. The issues they face include: unsupported/ mental health illness, sexual violence and prostitution, childhood trauma and abuse...

domestic violence, poverty, ex care system issues, addiction, prison,rehab,homelessness and austerity.

The people in our community that we represent are the most likely to access/ be placed in sex segregated services.Some have and will access all of these services.

Our local political and community organisations have been infiltrated by a group of well meaning white middle class goldsmith (uni) students. These people although well intentioned have rail roaded many vital projects by introducing identity policies and intersectional thinking. They do this without truly understanding or experiencing working class issues.

Meetings we have attended for the purpose of discussing community housing projects and women’s wellness etc have been used as a platform to re educate working class people on the new academic language expected within our organisations.

As anyone from a working class back ground will tell you, these theories and ideologies rarely translate into working class communities.

The extremely small number of transsexual (I use the old term as this has a very different meaning to the university umbrella term currently thrown about) members of the community are and have always been excepted and protected by community organisations.

We are now informed that transgender people are being routinely abused (mis gendered) and should be protected above all other marginalised groups. All that has changed is privileged students have adopted a set of gender identities that allow them to be considered marginalised.

The people we encountered were far from marginalised. In fact they were highly educated, openly classist and aggressive.

This new politics doesn’t equate in our community or for the people we support. We are dealing with working class issues with severely marginalised people and the trans lobby is a gentrification of working class social and political movements. Note the difference between trans lobby and trans people who we support.

No one will discuss our concerns regarding self id. Our local Labour Party has refused to comment or debate with the working class people.

We are attending the meeting this evening as this is only place that is willing to discuss theses issues.

When we are being verbally abused and called fascists because we are concerned about the effects of policy change on marginalised people it is a direct attack on working class women and grass roots organisations.

when sharing information about this event and attempt to shut it down be aware that you are complicit in the silencing of not only women but working class people who have not afforded the privileged of a safe space or university education. Thank you x

So don't lecture me about right wingers. Any compromise with genderist ideology is a compromise with the fucking right wing.

When young girls are getting their breast cut off and young guys are getting their penises cut off on live tv.

yes

for fucks sake, a young male was voluntarily castrated during the making a of a TV programme recently and main stream media raised not a single fucking murmur

this is monstrous