Posie Parker in the USA

I personally find that statement offensive.

I don’t care, I find pretty much all your disingenuous contributions offensive. So what.

With you on that juells

So why are we responding to the same people, saying the same things, asking us the same questions, distracting us intentionally and pretending to be GC to boot?

You need to bear in mind that there are a lot of people like me who read these threads. I'm not very well up on feminism, not very intellectual, don't understand a lot of the language used or the political theories. I need to be able to grasp ideas on an emotional level.

oxy it was in response to the posters (possibly you also) saying that this is the biggest issue facing woman
As someone who’s faced a lot of injustice, abuse, assault and more on account of my biology, I personally find that statement offensive.

indieshuffle "My DH has always said that one of major the downfalls that women as a class suffer from is our ability to turn on each other. Be it at school, work or politics. Men do better at protecting any other man, regardless of his views, niceness, evilness or likeability, because they recognise better that that man represents them. It takes more for men to truly turn on men."

I kind of agree. We see woman as rivals for men's affection, or other women's affection, for the good job or promotion or simply because we are socialised to compare ourselves unfavorably to other, younger, prettier women in the media.

Men do this too, may be not the last example! But what men seem to have the 'ability' to do is to turn into a 'pack' when the situation calls for it.

The reason that women do not do this as much is maybe because it's not ladylike and we are socialised not to!

As a woman who has been gang raped, I’m sickened that question is even asked. I had, still have, many fears and immediately afterwards I wanted to be near NO MALES. I still do not want males in places where I’ll be vulnerable. I don’t list my fears in order ffs.

the UK does not really have a significant religious right political force so this argument applies more in the US

Yes, but given the title, I thought this was a given (genuinely) . I thought it was about UK feminists in the US.

Plus, teh intarwebs do make borders a bit more hazy these days, at least ideologically if not politically.

with all participants stressing to their followers that they will continue to strenuously oppose each other on almost everything else

I missed this. I've been away dealing with something significant in my personal life. Can you show me where this has been clearly stated?

I think, too, that those 'on the left', or, probably more accurately those UK women and their US sisters with 'real' GC views, whether fuelled by feminism or something else, need to be really, really clear that they do not condone any gender fundamentalism or essentialism.

I think they also need to be very, very clear that they strongly disagree with publications disseminated by groups such as Culture Guard (in another thread) which include 'The Health Hazards of Homosexuality'.

My opinion put simply - say you’re a woman who’s just been raped. What do you fear the most? What is the biggest issue? The man who did it to you or the transwoman at your refuge?

What about if the man who did it to you is the transwoman at your refuge?

Sorry oxy

Please, as if they’ll make life more difficult for us when men are affected too.

How will men be affected?

oxy

Excellent point

Good points, YetAnotherSpartacus.

However, I would also point out:

a) the UK does not really have a significant religious right political force so this argument applies more in the US

b) this whole furore is about work to prevent a single bill passing in the US, which is currently seeing a nascent left/right alliance in regard only to this single bill, with all participants stressing to their followers that they will continue to strenuously oppose each other on almost everything else

All these worries have already been addressed.

I’m not telling anyone to concentrate on other things. I’m saying not to disregard the fundamental foundations in which woman’s rights are formed thanks to decades of feminists campaigning, to fight one issue.

Not slow spartacus, that’s quite rude, lots of people have said the same.

Please tell me how being ‘unable to define a woman’ will mean that the aforementioned laws and policies will be outlawed? Do you think our judges/employers/justice system will suddenly forget?

Oh wait, a man and woman can have an abortion, let’s make it illegal.

Oh yeah and men and woman can breastfeed, so no more breastfeeding rights.

Please, as if they’ll make life more difficult for us when men are affected too.

The big issue as always will be sport, womans refuge/prisons and roles filling their woman quota with transwoman. This is an issue, extremely so under Self-ID.

To have to deny, explain, defend, be confused, doubt, second guess. Are we teaming? what is teaming? Should we team? But with who... But, but but... Its a psychological brain freeze. IT IS A TACTIC, A WEAPON.

So why are we responding to the same people, saying the same things, asking us the same questions, distracting us intentionally and pretending to be GC to boot? Nothing new is being said or discussed so I’d welcome others to the threads discussing what’s been going on. IMO this is a waste of all your time. It’s been debated to death on numerous threads.

It's an interesting way to spend one's time as a GC person.

"Look over there!"

There was a case were a woman was suing regarding breastfeeding at work

One of the points made ( and it wasnt the thing that swung the case...its was just brought up) is that it wasn't discriminatory as men can lactate

They were talking about born men, not transmen

Obviously it failed on that point...i say obviously but it probably wasnt

But i can without question see a future instance where a case fails because (trans)men can lactate and therefore its not sex discrimination

i dont know what the answer is to be fair to everyone...but if you cant name it, you cant protect it

Isn't it amazing how that could be turned around into 'horrible women attacking a poor defenceless innocuous transwoman who was minding her own business in her place of work sad "? So much lying and bullshit and propaganda. How the TRAs hate Posie, they're desperate to discredit her.

Words are powerful. The event could have been reported:

"Two British women fighting for women's rights and childrens welfare forcefully ask questions about women's rights and children's safeguarding of influential male lobbyist. Influential lobbyist ignores feminist academic Dr Julia Long whose area of expertise is male violence towards women and children.

What do you fear the most? What is the biggest issue? The man who did it to you or the transwoman at your refuge?

If I’m at the refuge and the rapist isn’t pursuing me, it’s obviously the PTSD trigger right in front of me that’s the biggest issue.

Similarly, women who need abortions are still allowed to have choices over their healthcare treatment, including the choice to not have a man shove a giant probe up their vagina.

I find it very, very sinister that getting raped or needing an abortion are situations where women are somehow supposed to forfeit their rights, by this weird logic.

Just remember that the Christian / fundamentalist /political right holds to very similar ideas about gender being innate as do the 'genderists'. In fact, they are a variety of genderist. Many are also homophobic. Not so long ago there were multiple posts on here noting the prevalence of trans identifying children in fundamentalist Christian /right wing households and the rampant homophobia and rigid adherence to gender roles in these households were frequently cited as reasons why.

For those choosing to buddy up with the right please do not forget this.

I think it instructive that Early is quite so invested in persuading GC activists to concentrate on other things yet purports to be GC. It's an interesting way to spend one's time as a GC person.

Isn't it.

I think it instructive that Early is quite so invested in persuading GC activists to concentrate on other things yet purports to be GC. It's an interesting way to spend one's time as a GC person.

No I disagree completely with self ID, still wouldn’t rub shoulders or condone doing so with anti-woman organisations to fight it

Please stop reading things into my posts that aren't there

Its just you said that was anti trans rights ...or have i got myself confused

Given that TRAs think the “trans issue is the most important issue” to the point of literally defending paedophiles and murderers if they say they’re trans

Disgusting behaviour imo, no excuse for it.

"teaming up"... even when women are not "teaming up", we are accused of it because of course they don't want us to team up. Strength in numbers. And when we do, we have to deny it.

THIS IS STILL DIVIDE AND CONQUER Putting women on the back foot. To have to deny, explain, defend, be confused, doubt, second guess. Are we teaming? what is teaming? Should we team? But with who... But, but but... Its a psychological brain freeze. IT IS A TACTIC, A WEAPON.

>>>>>Did anyone notice in the LizGlitch, thread a parting comment by Liz? "...I hope at least this has been diversionary". DIVERSIONARY... exactly.

Wake up to the game women! Know our enemy. We don't have to be like them, but we have to know how they play the game (and they love the game, games are fun, mind games are even more fun).

This ^