Posie Parker in the USA

One question which really needs an answer is this. Why is the left so on-board with trans ideology? Why are the left embracing what is undoubtedly a misogynistic and homophobic movement and portraying concerned women as bigots?

Its cross party and the lobbying has been going on for a long time.

The left-right religious-not religious binaries are a bit of a distraction as transgenderism has always been driven by men (who benefit) whilst risking greatest harm to women and children.

Its as always about power and the abuse of power.

see thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

AngryAttackKittens Thu 03-Jan-19 13:49:05
I'm going to point every "but the nice, harmless old school transsexuals whose movement has been unfairly appropriated by the nasty transgender people" person to this thread from now on.

All the same elements we're seeing now were there in that old BBC roundtable from the 70s with the 4 transwomen, the politician, and the doctor. None of this is new.

*One question which really needs an answer is this. Why is the left so on-board with trans ideology? Why are the left embracing what is undoubtedly a misogynistic and homophobic movement and portraying concerned women as bigots?

Can one of the people who is so against what Posie is doing answer those questions? Gender ideology is regressive. Why has the left embraced it so completely*

My preference is to try and make alliances with those bits of the left who have not swallowed dogma, including some gay men.

Having said that, I don't think the left are intrinsically on the side of women. However, I KNOW that the right are not. On this issue, we (the right and us) appear to agree. Scratch the surface and they hate us as much as and if not more than the left - unless we are in good little Stepford roles doing their bidding. The ven diagram is useful here. The right want to make sure that gender essentialism is preserved because they want to make sure that patriarchy is preserved.

YetAnotherSpartacus

You forgot the rest. I don’t care if she finds other women saying self ID is the biggest issue, offensive.

Care to respond to any of my posts on my rape? Only I find your ignoring of it and taking my replies out of context, rude dismissive and incredibly uncool.

That's good though. I also hope that differing attitudes towards gender and what it is and whether it is 'essential' and women and their social roles as well as places vis a vis men are also acknowledged.

I think this is understood very clearly by all the participants.

The key thing to understand is how US legislating works. At the moment, there is a Republican executive (Trump is president but doesn't pass laws) and a Democrat majority in the legislature (which does pass laws).

Because the legislature is separate to the executive, there is a lot less whipping in US law-making. It's quite rare for individual MPs to defy the party whip here in the UK but much less so in the US.

So, when contentious laws are passing through the legislature, it's much more important to lobby individual members because there's a reasonable chance of them going against the party hierarchy and voting is more independent generally. You see this in shows like House of Cards, when they're all rushing about lobbying individual lawmakers, regardless of party, to get a majority.

So this is bread-and-butter politics for the US: people from both Republican and Democrat parties want to see this Equality Act bill fail, for different reasons. But they will only succeed in getting it to fail if they pool efforts. If they succeed, they'll just go their separate ways and lobby against each other on different bills.

My opinion put simply - say you’re a woman who’s just been raped. What do you fear the most? What is the biggest issue? The man who did it to you or the transwoman at your refuge?

This was the question. I find it hard to imagine a rape victim posing this question. As a victim, I responded.

I don’t care, I find pretty much all your disingenuous contributions offensive. So what

This was Oxy's statement. I think it was rude and dismissive.

The fundamentalist Christian right is older, richer, more experienced in political organising and a fuck of a lot more powerful than we are. I do think we need to be very wary of who is in control here and of being used. It's also deeply, deeply patriarchal and misogynist.

I agree we have to be wary, but the left is against us at the moment, so we can either be on our own, or accept some limited assistance from other sources - on this issue only.

One question which really needs an answer is this. Why is the left so on-board with trans ideology? Why are the left embracing what is undoubtedly a misogynistic and homophobic movement and portraying concerned women as bigots?

Can one of the people who is so against what Posie is doing answer those questions? Gender ideology is regressive. Why has the left embraced it so completely?

YetAnotherSpartacus

I literally highlighted what I was responding to. The statement she found offensive, about trans rights being the most important issue. I don’t see how I could possibly have been more clear. Note, that was in response to my comment re rape, which she never even acknowledged. Anywhere.

But oxy was very clear that she was replying 'i dont care' to what early finds offensive

It wasn't actually clear to me. I'll go back and re-read. It read to me more as 'I don't care' re the abuses that Every had spoken about.

I watched the Heritage Foundation panel video and both the host (Ryan Anderson, somebody most of us here would regard as a foe, quite rightly) and two of the panellists made it very clear that they were coming together for this one single issue and that they would continue to oppose one another on almost everything else

I haven't seen this. I tried to watch the one referenced a couple of posts above re the women speaking about lesbianism, but the sound quality was dreadful. That's good though. I also hope that differing attitudes towards gender and what it is and whether it is 'essential' and women and their social roles as well as places vis a vis men are also acknowledged. I also hope that the homophobia of the Christian right is critiqued as a probable cause of many young people choosing to identify as trans.

Yes thats what early is referring to

But oxy was very clear that she was replying 'i dont care' to what early finds offensive

when my own post on my abuse was ignored by those same people, and originally only responded to with ‘I don’t care

I think it might have been here? Oxytocindeficient Fri 01-Feb-19 10:56:23

I have no idea what my ‘biggest fear’ was at the time. Nor when I got screamed at and threatened with police by my head master for telling that our teacher was molesting us in class at 11. All I could think post-rape was, I didn’t consent to this. I got told what happened, all kinds of sick shit FYI, and I had injuries I didn’t know how I got... I had no support from any friend, female or otherwise... and all I could think was, but I didn’t consent so why am I a slut? What the hell happened? Who did this? ( one of them years later got invited into my flat by my friend who knew all about it, my sister dragged him out )

So when spaces I think are sacred to women are being invaded, without my consent, again, I do go back to that scared girl and think... why are men getting to do this to me again?

I certainly don’t stop and list what I fear the most and think, oh dear no this isn’t number 1 so I best just pull back a bit incase I lose my feminist membership. Not taking no for an answer or not even asking, is a fucking big deal to me.

Sorry what was I demanding of oxy?

The irony that you can say I ignored a post on abuse, when my own post on my abuse was ignored by those same people, and originally only responded to with ‘I don’t care’

Can’t take this place seriously anymore.

Disregard all woman except the ones that think exactly as you do.

I’m out, bye.

Just realised what Early has been demanding of Oxy.

Shame on you, Early. I will never see your posting in here as in good faith again. Never.

I think it's just power struggles within GC activism

Thanks Lang that makes sense.
Now I think about it, the lefty/journo/academic GC feminists are full of praise and support whenever one of them does anything on tv/radio e.g. when Helen Lewis and Rosa Freedman were on Women's Hour a few months ago. And rightly so - they were very good. But did they have anything to say when Posie took Harrop apart on live TV? I'm happy to be corrected but I don't recall a single word.

Posie doesn't half rattle cages. She's not part of any club and I guess some people don't like that.

I missed this. I've been away dealing with something significant in my personal life. Can you show me where this has been clearly stated?

I watched the Heritage Foundation panel video and both the host (Ryan Anderson, somebody most of us here would regard as a foe, quite rightly) and two of the panellists made it very clear that they were coming together for this one single issue and that they would continue to oppose one another on almost everything else.

As I understand it, this is how US legislative politics works. There's no cabinet style government, the legislature is separate from the executive, and no whipping of legislators as there is here.

YetAnotherSpartacus "I will always personally put women's ability to control their fertility as a major feminist issue. " then please do spare a thought for the large numbers of girls identifying as boys. Some will lose their wombs before they know of they want to reproduce

You know well enough that I do this because you have been here for at least the same length of time as I have and using the same name. Perhaps what we need to think about are the reasons why so many girls (many of whom are lesbian, so it seems) identify as boys and perhaps we need to consider where homophobia and gender fundamentalism comes from - and came from even before the trans genderists - one of the major places it comes from is the conservative Christian right (at least in the US which is the subject of this thread).

Yours is an essential derail for me oxy

I'm only chipping in here because for me, FWR is my main source of info for women's info. I don't have enough time or brain power to hunt out what to read elsewhere, I imagine it to be the same for many women. Most stuff comes together or is linked to, here on MN FWR.

I find it hard to keep up with what is happening, and especially when there are attacks and denouncements, so come her to try to find out what is going on. The last few days have been extraordinary. If only it weren't about something so serious.

I think it is still somewhat early days. We shall get all this set-up, falling for it, shite out the way, wake up, learn from it and carry on stronger. We women have to be more psychologically and politically street smart.

What's that quote about women thinking we are playing as one of the teams, but in fact we are the ball. Never has that been more true I think.

And obviously early i dont want to hear of any women being abused so im sorry youve suffered as well

oxy

Im really sorry about what happened to you

Also responding to me saying of the abuse I’ve faced as a woman with ‘I don’t care’ is pretty rude actually. Something a man would say. I see you hun

Oh early

Thats an outright twisting of what happened

In any space or situation, their voices must be heard and respected.

This is the video from the 'We Need To Talk' meeting in Washington

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=_twaEEStWUw

Watch the last 25 minutes if short of time to listen to the damage that is being done to young women, especially young lesbians.

This is when the 19 year old woman speaks:

"I thought about the 19-year-old woman who stood behind me on Sunday at the library, where we’d earlier heard from Lierre Keith, Meghan Murphy, Kara Dansky, and Brie Jontry. This young woman came to tell a room full of strangers that she had started transition about five years ago, had been on testosterone and already had a double mastectomy, only to realize that she was a lesbian, and a woman, and to wish someone had told her when she was younger that that was okay."
womensliberationfront.org/posie-parker-in-the-house/

Oh yeah and men and woman can breastfeed, so no more breastfeeding rights.

Very little accommodation is made for breast feeding women now. Women face discrimination because they might take maternity leave now.

Women face discrimination because of all the things that affect them over a life time. If you pretend that these are single issues, or that e.g. its somehow wrong to accept that most women will bear children and that this will impact their lives in a different way to men, you cannot argue for women's rights.