Posie Parker in the USA

The questions are rhetorical and are referring to political and policy responses. We can and do discuss rape and policy responses to rape. The intent of the post was to put the blame at the foot of the male rapist

No the question was posed in such a way to pose a false binary.

Its a common device.

Women who have been raped do not and should not have to consider such a question.

yet

Ive no intention of prolonging this after my next comment as it would be nice to get back to the thread and im conscious im derailing

But i thought the policy on mumsnet is that a comment following a bolded quote relates to just the quoted quote

Not necessarily the whole post....if thats not the case then it needs to be clarified as ive lost count of the posts ive mainly disagreed with but have specifically quoted the bit i think is good

But i have a feeling we are going to need to agree to disagree on this

Their words (as always) are important and attempts to silence them (by whatever means should be noted)

for their, read women

Silencing attempts come in many forms, denial, belittling, stonewalling, censoring, derailing etc

It asks appalling questions of women who have been raped. There are women on this thread and reading for whom this is not a 'hypothetical argument' but a reality with long lasting consequences

The questions are rhetorical and are referring to political and policy responses. We can and do discuss rape and policy responses to rape. The intent of the post was to put the blame at the foot of the male rapist and to ask questions about what we, as feminists, or as women, might want as policies. It sounded a warning against those policies which might support the loss of our rights. The actual poster acknowledged she has also been abused.

Not quite...i dont care about the abuse you've suffered though is it

Actually, this is how I read it and still read it - Oxy saying this to Every. Having said that, when I read your post, I mentally put speech quotes around the statement, so I am assuming this is what you meant.

So this is the whole post. I think it poses important questions.

It asks appalling questions of women who have been raped. There are women on this thread and reading for whom this is not a 'hypothetical argument' but a reality with long lasting consequences.

I’ve said I found it offensive because of the abuse I suffered.
Would you be happy if I said I don’t care that you find the question sickening? Even if your reasons are because of your abuse?

you said she said that you said that she said that you said that she said who on earth could follow this rambling accusation.

My opinion put simply - say you’re a woman who’s just been raped. What do you fear the most? What is the biggest issue? The man who did it to you or the transwoman at your refuge?
Say you fell pregnant from that rape and required an abortion, are you more thankful that you have the right to do so? Or would you not mind if you didn’t have rights to have one as long as the person who helped remove those rights, also faught for a transwoman to not perform the internal scan?
Woman’s rights and the issues surrounding them are the most important thing for woman in any situation, even if they do not realise it.
Woman’s rights are far more complex than the transgender movement. We mustn’t forget the real woman who need feminists in their corner, while fighting the straw man

So this is the whole post. I think it poses important questions. Some have been addressed since, at least partially, ie - the supposedly clear boundaries that GC women and right wing Christian fundamentalists have beyond this central issue - but I still think it poses important (rhetorical) questions.

'We Need To Talk'
'Meghan Murphy hosted by WNTT - Washington DC'

'We Need To Talk'

'Lierre Keith hosted by WNTT - Washington DC'

'We Need To Talk'

Kara Dansky at WNTT - Washington DC

I'm not sure why the continuous attempt to claim women are 'buddying up' or 'aligning with the right' should overshadow the actual speeches made in Washington.

Venice Allen's 'We Need To Talk' have run a number of events in the UK with a range of amazing speakers discussing the impact on women and children of transactivism and ideology

Their words (as always) are important and attempts to silence them (by whatever means should be noted)

Brie Jontry at WNTT - Washington DC

This was Oxy's statement. I think it was rude and dismissive

Not quite...i dont care about the abuse you've suffered though is it

But will that be enough to overturn the bizarre mindset that seems to have taken over which says that people can change sex and people who point out the truth are bigots? And that conforming (or not) to regressive gender stereotypes should carry more weight than biological reality

I'm not sure - but then I am not sure how aligning with a right wing who think that people born with vaginas have 'x' traits and people born with penises have 'y' traits (the old fashioned view of essential gender where 'y' happens to mean power over 'x') is going to help either.

Yes - but I'm not sure how that helps GC feminists politically in the UK

Indeed. Political alliances are a different kettle of fish here. Much less practical and pragmatic (and clearly temporary).

There are reasonable objections to fundamentalist genderism from outside feminism - child protection, free speech, others less savoury. UK GC feminists will have to navigate this and not all of them will come to the same position.

For info on what has been going on, and constructive discussion:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3490776-Women-Stand-Up-in-Washington-D-C

I copied it above at 12.01.

I’m not contributing here anymore.

My preference is to try and make alliances with those bits of the left who have not swallowed dogma, including some gay men.

I agree with this, and it seems that some gay men are waking up to what is going on. But will that be enough to overturn the bizarre mindset that seems to have taken over which says that people can change sex and people who point out the truth are bigots? And that conforming (or not) to regressive gender stereotypes should carry more weight than biological reality.

I responded to a question Early asked of rape victims, which I thought was sick and disgusting

Can you post the time it was made? I'm not sure what you are referring to.

So this is bread-and-butter politics for the US: people from both Republican and Democrat parties want to see this Equality Act bill fail, for different reasons. But they will only succeed in getting it to fail if they pool efforts. If they succeed, they'll just go their separate ways and lobby against each other on different bills.

Yes - but I'm not sure how that helps GC feminists politically in the UK.

YetAnotherSpartacus

I responded to a question Early asked of rape victims, which I thought was sick and disgusting. We aren’t talking about an outcome to this debate. We are talking about a completely inappropriate, disgusting and insensitive question being asked of rape victims, as if a male body in their refuge shouldn’t concern us or be a priority. You might be able to ignore such a comment, but I will not. That they responded without even acknowledging my story, just shows the concern to be disingenuous. Totally.

Its cross party and the lobbying has been going on for a long time.

Yes, I'm aware of that, but what I can't understand is why people are swallowing the trans ideology. Why can't more people see through it, and how regressive it is to have an idea that 'living as a woman' is somehow different from 'living as a man'.

Living as a woman = living as a human with a female body. Anything else is stereotypes. Why are so many on the left keen to embrace those stereotypes? Why can't they see the hypocrisy in saying they are progressive whilst supporting regressive stereotypes?

Can one of the people who is so against what Posie is doing answer those questions?

I don't think it's as simple as left and right. There are organisations across the entire political spectrum with which I wouldn't associate and the Heritage Association is one of them. Other people draw their lines in different places and that is their right.

Care to respond to any of my posts on my rape? Only I find your ignoring of it and taking my replies out of context, rude dismissive and incredibly uncool

Rape is terrible. You spoke of gang rape (?) Every spoke of assault and other crimes and forms of discrimination and oppression. Everything both of you spoke of is awful. One of you thinks that trans is the overriding issue (you), the other does not (Every). This is the central debate and whether one of you experienced more or less harm than the other should not dictate the outcome of this debate.