Posie Parker in the USA

I agree with littlbrown

Its good to have clear voices everyone can understand

Its really important to me!

Elizabeth
You don’t know how much I like reading your stuff

Very clear and can understand
Not somevwafty academic words
It’s really obvious what some ppl are trying to do
Posie is someone that ordinary ppl can identify with and very clear and puttin* her life on hold why she does this
For us. For all women and girls

She actually does give a fuck but doesn’t give a fuck what pl think of her
She gets on with action. I am proud of her and what she is trying to do
She has brought this to the attention of ordinary peopl and says it out loud what everyone is thinking

It seems perfectly believable to me but if you have any evidence I would very much like to hear it. If you don't - well the kindest thing I can say is that it's a very careless comment in the current climate.

Having seen the difficulties faced by women in the UK who tried to hold meetings...I don't know how anyone could believe that the situation in the US would be different.

I don't believe for a second that the Heritage Foundation was literally the only place that would host such a meeting

Ive a one word answer to this

Milwall

Wake me when the vilification of radical feminists for talking to the right is turned with the same ferocity to the left who refuses to allow radical feminists to speak.

Well put. Please don't go!

Me too and I hope you come back soon Anne. I've found your posts really informative.

I know this has been picked up already but I would also like to hear what this is based on:
I don't believe for a second that the Heritage Foundation was literally the only place that would host such a meeting.
It seems perfectly believable to me but if you have any evidence I would very much like to hear it. If you don't - well the kindest thing I can say is that it's a very careless comment in the current climate.

I consider myself to be that most old fashioned of things - an internationalist leftist (by which I do not mean this neoliberal free movement aiding capital rather than people business).

We need you, Anne/Materialist, so that we can understand the lay of the land for our sisters outside the UK and offer the best internationalist solidarity we can!

Responding to a personal attack in kind is unhelpful - turn the other cheek, ignoring and rising above are a great strategy.

I get really cranky when I read advice like that, or "when they go low, we go high".

Everyone's different. Why are women always advised to ignore, rise above, take the high road, be the better person? That's like telling women to 'be womanly' - or the popular view of what a woman should be.

The reason so many women admire Posie is because she's a Fuck You And The Horse You Rode In On woman. Classy and tasteful gets ignored.

I'd be very sad to see Materialist go.

I agree with lang

Its fine to be angry...anger is a great power in my opinion, if used the right way

But it would be a great shame if it meant that the board loses important voices

And with that, having posted here first as materialist, then as Elizabeth Jennings, and now under this current name, I’m going to bow out. I’m angry too, and I think that’s best turned elsewhere.

I wish you would stay.

Great post louise. Agreed.

I don't post often but I do read veraciously.

So from one of the lurkers, thank you all for tirelessly and cheerfully and pedantically setting your stalls out. I do agree that this has been done to death, I also agree that the info is there so people who ask " explain it to me" should be directed to the threads to do their own labour.

As to where I stand - I DGAF about people's personal beliefs, beyond them operating from their own centre of integrity. That does not give them the right to impose it on me/ judge my behaviour as I am a private citizen. When my actions make me "public" so to speak, then I understand that I will be judged and that some people will find my actions less than what they wished for. So what - that is the nature of the beast. It matters less than what we are fighting for here.

So I stand with all the brave women who in whatever way they can are campaigning to keep women's sex based, hard won, rights

Keep on keeping on, I thank you all

LangCleg

think I’ve found my breaking point now

You've found it quite a few times so far, yet you seem to mend pretty quickly.... <

Right? just has to keep posting to get the last word... more BS, more gaslighting, more gross insensitivity.

And the same advice applies to offline activism too - agree to disagree, work strategically, hold your nose if you have to but do not allow yourselves to get distracted into fighting other women who you agree with on most things but vehemently disagree with on a few things. Eyes on the prize.

The thing is, it doesn't actually matter, the word is getting out there angry people are talking, people know.

Mumsnet isn't exactly the central hub, although TRA's promoting the site has backfired, there's no organised movement, each individual is still doing their bit regardless of what's happening here.

I have only one thing to say about all this, which is the following - remember when that Emily person said they were planning to sow dissent and discord between GC women in an attempt to kneecap our ability to push back against TRA plans?

They told us they were going to do this, and even if they hadn't it should have been obvious. Why are so many people letting it happen anyway? We have to be smarter than this. We can agree to disagree without dissolving into paralyzing infighting.

And I don't believe for a second that the Heritage Foundation was literally the only place that would host such a meeting.

It's possible it was. HRC is connected to the mainstream Democratic Party. Heritage is connected with the Republicans.

Right now, no liberal organization is going to take this issue on because there are so many other issues to tackle, half don't understand why women need rights beyond peremptory lip service anyway, and the opposition is well organized especially from inside the tech industry.

All that is true about RW organizations as well, except the GOP is losing women.

The GOP lost white women last election. They're still hanging on with the noncollege educated, but that's a major danger sign. Heritage's role would be to lure college educated women back without changing their anti-women policies.

When we say American politics is polarized, I mean it is so polarized that I could, say, point out that a speaker never introduces legislation. A person who kept posting that the legislation belonged to the speaker could claim that was a "personal attack" against the person simply because they have gotten used to standard practice for conservatives to blame liberals for everything they can in every piece they write.

What will happen now is that the GOP will now edge in to try to claim "real feminism" is "their issue."

Polarized, and Posie walked right into it.

Sorry if I sound angry, but I am angry. This is astroturfing done by the people who created the astroturf.

FYI: Sully is a conservative writer. His piece in NYMag, FYI, was well written, but probably won't be read seriously by the people who need to read it seriously.

Greyhound, we"re on the same page in this thread. You're quicker than me.

"And I don't believe for a second that the Heritage Foundation was literally the only place that would host such a meeting."

keeponspinning We American posters and the women of Hands Across the Aisle have said this is the case. I'd be interested to hear why you think we're lying.

Those guidelines:

Acknowledge difference without criticism
Stick to the shared issue as a focus
avoid personal criticism
dont engage with external critics on issues that are peripheral.

Posie et al did something very unexpected- it caught many by surprise. Some support them and some don’t. That ok - we don’t all have to agree on what other women do - we are not a cult nor hopefully men’s police.

Personal attacks are not helpful. Responding to a personal attack in kind is unhelpful - turn the other cheek, ignoring and rising above are a great strategy.

I’ll go find the navigating conflict guidelines Bowl came up with on another thread - we would all do well to heed them

keeponspinning

"And I don't believe for a second that the Heritage Foundation was literally the only place that would host such a meeting."

What's that based on?

Did you know the Heritage Foundation hosted one two years ago? Different panel, similar thing.

www.heritage.org/gender/commentary/biology-isnt-bigotry-why-sex-matters-the-age-gender-identity

Yes, I did see that comment. It still doesn't explain to me why it was a good idea to attend (from a UK perspective at least)

keeponspinning Have a look at the Venice Allen's interview with Madeleine Kearns. She is a jornalist from Scotland, living in New York and has written some excellent articles including for the Spectator. She comes with a working knowledge of Safeguarding from her teacher training and has had contact with parents and doctors etc.

Madeleine Kearns lives and works in the US and she provides a really useful balanced description of the context there.

Venice Allen interviewed her just before they both attended the event so this may help answer some of your concerns.

there's a link on the thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3496764-Venice-Allen-interviews-journalist-Madeleine-Kearns-in-Washington