Posie Parker in the USA

donquixotedelamancha "she was at work in a private meeting- what they did was harrassment. There was no attempt to have a constructive conversation, it was just attention seeking. "

McBride is National Press Secretary for Human Rights Campaign, the USA equivalent of UK's Stonewall. McBride does not work at the Senate building in Washington DC. McBride is not a senator or on any of the staff at the Senate. McBride was there for a political lobbying meeting advocating for the erasure of females' rights by way of lobbying to have sex removed from law and replaced with "gender identity" in the Proposed USA Equality Act. [This proposed law is now dubbed the "Female Erasure Act."]

The door to that room was open, signifying that privacy was not required by its occupants. There was no harassment; it was a fair challenge to someone who is energetically lobbying to remove all rights for females in USA.

I'm a gander.

Who has done the same thing?

Just reflecting generally on the fact that sauce for the gander is never sauce for us geese.

Posie just highlighted the issue of Sarah McBride refusing to acknowledge there are any risks to women & girls, with the clash of trans ideology. If Sarah refuses to enter into a conversation-that is highlighting the very problem. Sarah is in a powerful position & not listening to valid concerns. Posie was not threatening or abusive.

They were saying xyz anyway? So, if they’re saying we’re bigots and haters, we might as well be bigots and haters? Because obviously there’s no middle ground to be explored between pussyfooting and stomping all over them in jackboots. Let’s give them what they want and show everyone we are actually as bad as they say we are.

Yeah, that’ll learn ‘em.

god forbid a woman should do the same thing,

Who has done the same thing?

Harassment and abuse seems to have worked for the TRAs, with everyone afraid to offend them. But god forbid a woman should do the same thing, then it's considered to reflect on every other woman in the world who is GC.

Pussyfooting around them doesn’t help. In fact, it actually makes things worse

I agree with that strongly. I am supportive of the likes of Man Friday's stunts to get attention to the issue. I don't think we should be tribal by blanket refusing co-operation with right wing people/parties or that we should be nice or mild in our criticism of the more loony TRAs behaviour.

My specific issue is that when something tips over from public protest into personal harassment it rightly puts huge numbers of people off.

they were saying xyz anyway

They were, and they were lying. Those lies, told over and over, are what opened the eyes of hundred of thousands of people. Those lies were brilliant at turning people against the TRAs, because they were so obviously lies.

I am not saying that I have any right to dictate how Posie should protest, merely that it's not helpful.

The confrontation with McBride is a Twitter Moment now. It's completely one-sided - not asking why it happened or what was said. Hopefully some people will try to find out.

That's why 99% of people aren't pussy footing around.

I’m sick of all this ‘ it’s an own goal, it gives them ammunition to say xyz’, when they were saying xyz anyway.
Pussyfooting around them doesn’t help. In fact, it actually makes things worse

Oxytocindeficient, many topics get discussed on multiple threads. Distracting from other issues? That’s some disingenuous bullshit right there. This is an issue that needs airing across multiple threads because I’m probably not the only one who wants to know who I’m getting into bed with.

If you’re going to court American women then court the middle ground, the ones yes, with concerns about trans rights impinging on their own but you’re not going to get a huge take up because we have far bigger concerns in the current political climate. American women are seeing their healthcare, workplace and educational rights being rolled back and overturned and the people front and center in doing it aren’t TRAs, they’re PPs new best friends and they have the clout in Washington to do so which TRAs don’t.

Totally agree with donquixote.

The behaviour in the video was unacceptable - both by being unhelpful to those concerned for women in this, but also it was not acceptable to behave that way towards that woman.

It does however ill behave Adrian Harrop to be tweeting about how all of us have enabled this, while seemingly unaware of all of the similar or far worse threats and intimidation by those he agrees with, but has failed to call out (with the exception of doxxing PP’s children).

With you on this Lang.

This is me. I speak for no-one but me but this is me:

I'm perfectly clear where I stand in general politically.

I'm perfectly clear where I stand with regard to trans issues.

Sometimes, people who disagree with me politically agree with me on trans issues and vice versa.

A lot of people want me to change one because of the other FOR THEIR OWN ENDS. I will not do that. I will not be proselytised or hectored or lectured about this.

End fucking of.

What’s wrong is you’re rehashing a topic that is discussed in multiple threads.

The whole trans topic is rehashed across numerous threads. It's hardly a big problem.

I think it’s a bit much to say, I can’t be bothered reading anything, explain it to me.

And yet several people have been happy to explain it to the OP. If you're not, fine, don't post.

"Women who don't consider themselves feminists are entitled to hold a view on the subject as well."

I would also add men who are fiercely GC as well.

The TRAs have positioned themselves into every strand of politics in the UK - deliberately - for their own gain.

Their lack of coherence and commitment to any issue other than their own makes me wonder if they just sat round a table and drew straws for who went into which party.

They see a gap and they fill it.

Watch the video of the panel who were hosted by the Heritage Foundation - Julia Beck's contribution explains the situation perfectly.

For me personally, women and girls' rights and protections are the most important thing and I can agree to disagree on other stuff.

And let's face it, the TRAs are actively trying to divide and rule - it's probably their biggest weapon.

Ok from a ‘woman’s issue’ then.

Yes people who just plain dislike trans people for other reasons such as religion or bigotry are perfectly entitled to hold an opinion. A lot of people are not happy to lay down with them to get the job done. I certainly wouldn’t be. A lot of people also have an issue with them trying to disguise their hatred as concern.

Someone who opposes a woman’s right to abortion, contraception, or to marry her girlfriend quite frankly does not give a shit about woman in my opinion.

But anyway I’ll probably get more abuse for saying that and I cba. Just wanted to explain to OP what the issue some people had was.

Feminists don't own the issue though. Women who don't consider themselves feminists are entitled to hold a view on the subject as well.

They are. And some people are being rather disingenuous about their own "stance".

we are taking away our stance on trans issues from a ‘feminist issue’

Feminists don't own the issue though. Women who don't consider themselves feminists are entitled to hold a view on the subject as well.

Can’t you just read the other threads on this? Why the need for another post?

They are very long. I hadn't seen the latest action or Dr Stock's reaction until this thread.

www.gaystarnews.com/article/video-lesbians-harassing-trans-woman/

This seems to be the video which is being criticised. My random thoughts are:

1. This is not remotely the same as surrounding someone on a stairwell with masks on, urinating on someone's door or putting someone's photo on twitter with comments that they are transphobic and you need to get your baseball bat out. It's worth noting again the vast difference between the worst behaviour on both sides.

1. It's still not acceptable. The office may have been in a public building but she was at work in a private meeting- what they did was harrassment. There was no attempt to have a constructive conversation, it was just attention seeking.

1. I agree with Kathleen Stock that that this was really unhelpful. It allows TRAs to justify the accusation that GC feminists are transphobic and will put off many people who would otherwise listen.

1. It further reinforces my perception that Posie acts from a place of dislike for 'otherness' rather than concern for women.

The issue is with the people she’s with not neccesarily left vs right.

The heritage foundation and the people she met opposes same sex marriage, abortions, contraception...

The heritage foundation is profoundly racist and wrote an article stating Hispanic people will always be intectually inferior to white recently.

They said they will help trump ‘drain the swamp’

Some people think that by turning to organisations like that, we are taking away our stance on trans issues from a ‘feminist issue’ into a ‘hate issue’

Many people agree that there are issues with the transgender movement and the detrimental effect it will have on woman, pairing up with organisations that may be seen to have an issue with the transgender movement that are nothing to do with woman’s issues, is not something that a lot of people are happy with.