Posie Parker in the USA

Never heard of Emily Zinos, but I noticed most of those USA antiabortionist people do it for their own egos, as couldn't care about children born into unhappy circumstances, or all those confused adopted people spending lots of time and money searching for their identity.
I also think USA activists are very different to European. Everybody hates everybody else in the USA. They think they're the only nation with free speech, so should shoot their mouths off at everybody for the sake of it, and instead of realising what rest of the world does with how annoying Americans are, the USA men and women blame each other. USA women tell men they're disgusting if not mutilated as a baby for non medical reasons, and many young USA males spend their time online saying they don't want women, but instead of leaving women alone, they spend their time trying to make women feel bad and others to be abusive towards women.

LisaMugeridge sorry, that was a cross post, I was responding to a previous post to yours.

Who do I audition to and what criteria am I required to meet before I am allowed to discuss inequality women face and act for myself or other women? And are we allowed to byass this in an emergency? Say a response to a financial crisis that removes ability of women to leave abuse? Maybe after a certain number of dead women? Or is this a permanent checkpoint and there is no bypassing it?

Its worth listening to the radio interview by PP and the reasons why she describes herself as a woman's rights activist rather than a feminist activist.

I find the notion that she has to a) say she is feminist b) in doing so fit within existing media feminist hierarchies and frameworks and thinking c) therefore all actions have to be assessed on basis of threat to the left, fucking bizarre.

Whatever I might think why on earth should Posie say she holds with a way of htinking the people demanding her denouncement are asking for? Its not just about the fact that right wing women are women its that appointing yourself the conduit women have to use to discuss inequality is fucking batshit and was only allowed by media.

Am really sorry but there are God complexes going on here. No Posie does not have to call herself a feminist to act for herself, to act for women how she sees fit, no she does not hve to ask permission from a bunch of women who appear to have managed to get a very cushy and lengthy good deal identifying as a feminist while womens rights are being decimated and dont seem to have noticed, and no woman has to ask permission of the elite feminists screaming to discuss inequality.

Is this why not a peep was heard with austerity? Oh yes it was. Becayuse the left and feminists said we were not allowed to discuss it without reference to them., Noone ever explained y what authority, something to do with being posh, having mates at the Guardian, and that was it.

Am sorry but its disgusting and the tribalism on show is telling wome a great deal and its informative about how htings have been, but its nothing to do with anything useful for anyone and never has been.

Its worth listening to the radio interview by PP and the reasons why she describes herself as a woman's rights activist rather than a feminist activist.

''Feminism? Waal, that can wait .''

Yup. In fact, look at the forces who emerge from this in 12 months time and check whether there are any of the women from the systems discussed, whether those systems are important to whatever 'movements' emerge.

We have just seen a demonstration of how women and the systems we discussed remained marginalised and its not confined to one side.

The tribalism is aout existing political forcves, institutions.

At the end of the day left, right, media feminism...forty years consensus maintained. It was inevitale this movement would show how that happens. The inevitability of it is depressing.

AnneHutchison.

It is not an assumption that you write like a conservative. You do.

And after the 2010 conservative electoral sweep up until today, elected conservatives have been adding their voices to such fine causes as banning the word "uterus" because it is unseemly, and suggesting women register their menstrual cycles so the state could be sure the woman didn't have an abortion. And the "principled support" for personhood laws that void a woman's right to own her own body.

Not to mention opposing the payment of birth control through insurance, the wage equality act, the violence against women act, etc etc, and then denying there was a war on women.

Conservatives are going to stop gender madness? Not until they get their cut. That's what I'm saying, and once again, it is not an assumption. It's also not an assumption is that the left will react, and it will become yet another mired down partisan cause with bad policy results.

That's the real state of play in the US. This isn't tribalism. It's triangulation, and the other side will play it too.

Feminism? Waal, that can wait .... message edited by MNHQ as it contained potentially identifying information

Radio Interview with Posie Parker about the reasons for her & Julia Long's confrontation of Sarah MacBride:

wxde.streamon.fm/listen-pl-3651

OrchidInTheSun

"I wish you would stay Anne. I really value your POV and your insights. You are such a valuable poster."

Agree.

Materialist, Elizabeth, Anne

Please don't go. We are losing far too many women on this forum, over this issue.

This forum is important. There are too many women on here and it's too well known for it not to be.

In the time I've been looking at this issue, I have never seen fissures such as the ones happening now.

That's partly to do with Posie's modus operandi but also, significantly, to do with the difference between the US and the UK way of doing things. And why.

There are simply huge numbers of supportive but scared, concerned and upset women who don't understand politics, much less the significance in the differences between the UK and US.

We are in desperate need of as much in-depth knowledge as we can access.

Having said that, if this is for the sake of your mental serenity, I don't want to put any pressure on you obvs.

Thank you.

If tribalism was going to make women heard it would have done by now.

This.

Tribalism requires an identity at the centre, it requires that identity become the aim of the tribe and hten it requires people defend that identity regardless of reality.

If tribalism was going to make women heard it would have done by now. The rule of law underpinning this is about marginalisation, abuse, and power, and all tribalism does is demonstrate how that is maintained. Am sorry but thats it, and I wont e taking either side.

So the trans issue has highlighted MAJOR probems in academia, which implicates ALL of academia and all that comes out of those institutions, major problems in politics, media, and in tech companies. I dont know whetherpeople relaise how HUGE what was revealed by TERF is but its immense.

The tribalism appears to correspond to dead bits of the existing political spectrm as far as I can see.

On the left, you are discussing elite feminists reproducing hteir own identity using resources they have which largely came on the back of women being marginalised, who didnt notice equality being rolled back with austerity. but did notice trans rights, you have the left who are a direct threat of fascism. No tribe with these priorities will ever seek to address the dysfunction revealed by TERF because it means their own identity is threatened and the idea the right wouldnt also reform here is absurd, but there is a very serious diffference between free speech that includes Tommy Robinsons right to do as he chooses and womens rights which include the right to be protected from what men think htey should be free to do.

I think the outcome of the online tribalism and tribalism around media will be one thing and one thing only and it wont be making women heard, and it wont be defending womens rights. Tribalism requires identity at the centre an dthen requires certain behaviours, and those behaviours mean the issue at stake gets lost.

I think its interesting ut no more. I think women need to be making themselves heard and those with political resources should be facilitating that, but I think human nature is what it is and trialism is what it is.

I love Posie because she doesn't pussyfoot around these issue. She tells it straight. She says what most people are thinking. She's fearless.

I remember the shock I felt the first time I watched GG on a youtube video, and she said straight out that transwomen are men. Then I wondered "why am I shocked that someone said that?". In the face of TWAW, we need to have people who are strong enough to talk about reality.

Thabk you. @AnneHutchinson

I love Posie because she doesn't pussyfoot around these issue. She tells it straight. She says what most people are thinking. She's fearless.
I'm a bit pissed off that people assume because she's focusing on this issue, which is HUGE, it automatically follows that she doesn't give a fuck about any other feminist issues. This is nonsense. She's chosen her battle, that's all. There will be other days and other battles..

Sorry to see you go Anne, I hope it's a short break and you come back.

The left will not come to women’s side on this.

This is true on both sides of Atlantic.

She said it was about confronting Twitter.

Did you watch the videos from that meeting? I don't know which thread they were linked in, but one of them was on the subject of twitter, and its anti-woman bias.

Sorry about my comments about the HF being the only place to host such a meeting. I guess I was thinking that you can hold a meeting anywhere (e.g. in someone's house!) but that's probably a bit academic since it is raising the profile that you're looking for.

The rest of the comment still stands. I understand that the political climate is different in the US. I suppose it all depends on what PP et al wanted to achieve. Was their aim to change things for US parents and trans kids in the US? Because that wasn't what Posie said in her initial video. She said it was about confronting Twitter.

Materialist, Elizabeth, Anne

I am sorry to see you go and hope you come back. I always enjoy your clear headed posts.
I also find it hugely helpful to have your perspective and explanations from the USA.

I Mumsnet benefits greatly from the international users and the knowledge they bring and as said upthread, the gender cult having started in the US, we need to look at what is happening there to inform us here.

And, yes, since the push for genderism originates in the US, you are quite right that stopping it there at the source is vital.

I wish you wouldn't go too Anne/Materialist

I've learned so much from you and will miss your posts

But should say we should be getting heard on all sorts of places

I agree with you rowan 😉😉
Owing the haddock on sky news reaches far more ppl than a non debate on women’s hour on radio 4

I wish you would stay Anne. I really value your POV and your insights. You are such a valuable poster.

This has been such a horrible week - I am trying very hard to take a step back at the moment because I don't think it's doing my MH any good.

I hope you reconsider when the dust has settled