12 year old NI rape victim escorted to England by police to seize evidence

Far too young for a driver's licence or electoral card too, so the only ID she could use was a passport.

Women in Northern Ireland are denied abortion in NI and denied access to NHS abortions in the UK. Arelene Foster and Teresa May should hang their heads in shame.

Most airlines now require a passport as proof of ID, even though they aren't necessary for immigration purposes to travel between NI and England

They are specifically saying that the evidence was taken by the police in a lawful fashion

Oh come off it. As you can see by the posts on here it is not being taken in that strict legal sense. Of course the police have the right to seize evidence but that is not the context it was used in that report- nor how it is being interpreted.

The report is intended to stir things up. The writer could have said "collect evidence"

You are completely wrong about the use of the word "seize". It is a term used to assert that the police took possession of something lawfully.

So, for example, in PACE 1984

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/60/section/19

They are specifically saying that the evidence was taken by the police in a lawful fashion.

"The police had to go with her, they attended the surgical procedure to seize the evidence,” Ms Purvis said

"That is inhumane treatment of a young child who did not have a passport and had to leave the country.”

This is where the word "seize" comes
It is very badly expressed and ridiculously sensational. The police need DNA evidence- that isn't "seizing" anything.

And what has not having a passport got to do with anything? It is a very long time since I was in N Ireland but I didn't have take my passport.

I don't understand why the abortion could not have been carried out in NI. The circumstances seem to meet the NI criteria but Ms Purves' other points are misguided.

I'm hoping that the recent changes to the law in the Isle of Man regarding abortion will make it much easier for women (and girls ) in NI to travel to access abortion

I didn't realise that SF were now pro-choice. Another example of politics shifting such that a party that I would previously have never ever considered voting for developing a policy that I support

Abortions are allowed in certain circumstances. I’d have imagined a 12 year old who was raped would qualify but apparently not. I don’t see an issue (although it was probably traumatic) with keeping for DNA evidence. If it’s the only way to try and catch the rapist then it feels justified. I’d like to add that I think abortions should be allowed as freely as the rest of the UK. It’s embarrassing that this country is so sexist.

That poor wee girl

For me it's the use of the verb 'to seize' in this context which is problematic. It has draconian or underhand tones, which aren't applicable here. Now I've used up my free peeks at The Independent without signing up for something, I can't check this but there is also a reference in the article about the possibility of a case against the girl herself. Or something like that. I hope I'm imagining that.

I'm genuinely surprised that police are allowed to do anything with the products of a medical procedure
It will give them the DNA of her rapist.

That poor poor girl. My heart goes out to her. I hope help and support is available to her and that she can make a recovery from the ordeal. How they can't think that being a pregnant 12 year old is detrimental to her health, mental and physical, shows the oppression women and girls are living under.

I have to say that my first thought of the girl having a police escort made me think of the first black girl to get into a white school in the southern states.

They will need sufficient DNA material to make their case to identify the father. I'm not a pathologist so I don't know how much that is.

To describe this as "seizing evidence" and comments such as "the police shouldn't be allowed to do anything with the product of a medical procedure" are overwrought and irrational.

Can't they just keep enough cells to get the DNA?

And 'seizing evidence'! I'm genuinely surprised that police are allowed to do anything with the products of a medical procedure

This presumably refers to keeping the aborted foetus for DNA purposes. It would usually be incinerated. Would you prefer that they destroyed incontrovertible proof linking the pregnancy to the rapist?.

If it gets her rapist I think it's warranted. It's a disgrace that she wasn't able to get treatment at home but I'm pleased that she wasn't prevented from leaving to access help and that hopefully evidence has been preserved which might get a conviction. I would like to think the officers that went with her were specially trained and treated her with the sensitivity she deserved. Poor kid.

According to the article:

Terminations are only allowed in cases where the woman's life is in danger or there is a permanent or serious risk to her mental or physical health.

A pregnant 12 year old meets all those criteria in my opinion. That poor, poor girl. And 'seizing evidence'! I'm genuinely surprised that police are allowed to do anything with the products of a medical procedure.

You're right, North Ireland. Sorry.

However:

Abortion is only permitted when there is a risk to the life of the mother, or a serious risk to her physical or mental health.In such an instance, women can have the termination in an NHS or private clinic in Northern Ireland.

Abortion isn't completely illegal in Ireland.

It's not Ireland though, it's Northern Ireland.

Utterly disgusting.

Abortion isn't completely illegal in Ireland. Simply very very limited and even when allowed not necessarily carried out. None of which I agree with - it should be available - but repeating incorrect information weakens the argument. After all, if you have that wrong what else is wrong? The truth, sadly, is awful enough with that.

the DUP who are officially pro-life.

They aren't pro life. They are against women and girls. They are authoritarian bigots.

Sinn Fein are now officially pro-choice.

All other parties make it an issue of cosncience and do not whip, except the DUP who are officially pro-life.

There. Is. No. Abortion. Allowed. At. All.

According to the article there were 12 abortions in NI.

Whilst the situation is dreadful so is the reporting with use of language like "seizing evidence"

Actually there were twelve abortions performed in NI last year. That was also in the news last week. Not sure of the circumstances of any of those cases kind you, but I does happen here.