Suzanne Moore on the shame women are made to feel about their bodies and the effect on smear test attendance.

So I went for my (overdue) smear test today, luckily I had a very nice nurse (older lady, seemed to have far more empathy), she acknowledged this is horrid, told me to relax but said 'I know its easy for me to say when you are the one lying there', used a plastic speculum thankfully and generally treated me with a bit of dignity and humanity.

Their website is good (I'm trying to overlook the 'people with vaginas' bit as they do talk about women. Plus they're in San Francisco)

yonacare.com/

A couple of women design engineers have come up with a new speculum which sounds so much nicer. I don't suppose it will be available any time soon

www.wired.com/story/the-speculum-finally-gets-a-modern-redesign/

Just an update to say that I spoke to my (female) Dr who was very understanding of my traumatic smear. She says she will do it herself in 3 weeks and in the meantime has given me some estradiol pessaries to use. I don't really suffer from 'dryness' as such but she thinks that they might help make me feel not quite so sensitive. She also said that it's something that happens as you get older and it might make doing smears more problematic. Hopefully it won't be the ordeal it was the last time and at least the Dr is aware of my history. Am now googling what estradiol is all about - seems it's like HRT but not? Time to pop over to the menopause boards!

I am curious as to what the statistics are for cervical cancer beyond the menopause. Am assuming there is a lower risk?

Unfortunately, it does get harder as you get older due to hormone changes and stuff. My last one was ok but I am not going to any more. I have decided for me that the downsides outweigh the risk of cervical cancer by a very long way.

I’ve sailed through smear tests through my late teens, 20s, 30s, 40s but at my last one in my late 40s I had 2 HCPs have a go and not succeed in finding my cervix. I know I have a tilted one and did all the fists under my back but they were defeated and said I had to come back in a week when my cervix would be in a different position. I duly went back and the same HCP (who incidentally was a Mum I saw on the playground which didn’t help) could not get an adequate swab. She had to call in the Dr, thankfully a young cheery female, who finally managed to do it. I was totally traumatised and am now overdue by 2 years. I followed advice on here to try a sexual health clinic but my appointment has been cancelled because of staff shortages. I’m seeing the Dr tomorrow and will discuss with her. I now totally understand how it is for those of us for whom the procedure isn’t a few ‘uncomfortable’ minutes.

There needs to be something similar to the #metoo campaign for this to drive home the point that this is an excrutiatingly painful procedure for a lot of us.

That's never going to achieve anything because 'they' don't care. We just have to be good women who lie back and put up with it. I got a reminded for a smear test the other day, I won't be going now.

Only samples which test positive for HPV are now actually looked at for pre-cancerous changes. So for most people, that means that the collected cells just get disposed of without ever being looked at

That's ridiculous, you can get cervical cancer without being positive for HPV. Effectively, if you are celibate and have been since before your last smear test then it's pointless to have one then, as it is if you have had the HPV vaccine?

Only samples which test positive for HPV are now actually looked at for pre-cancerous changes. So for most people, that means that the collected cells just get disposed of without ever being looked at

I didn't know this.

Why am I starting to feel like the smear test is just another way for a patriarchal system to trample women's boundaries because there is power in making women feel as vulnerable as possible.

they don't do what a smear does though do they? a smear takes cells from the cervix which are checked in a lab?

Only samples which test positive for HPV are now actually looked at for pre-cancerous changes. So for most people, that means that the collected cells just get disposed of without ever being looked at

they don't do what a smear does though do they? a smear takes cells from the cervix which are checked in a lab?

Tests available on Amazon and Superdrug

www.amazon.co.uk/LetsGetChecked-Home-Cervical-HPV-Test-x/dp/B01ETAMXAG/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?psc=1&keywords=Hpv+test&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1548790619&sr=8-1-spons

onlinedoctor.superdrug.com/hpv-test.html

I don't go. Last time I went they couldn't find it and gave up.

Yeah. I actually looked all over to see if I could buy my own urine test, nope. Nobody is offering it including the NHS. I can get the home kit swab thing above.

We should start a petition or something?

Maybe women should campaign to have the urine test instead of invasive smear test? I'm sure there would be a higher take up rate which is what the NHS want.

I also can’t buy into the narrative pushed that drs/nurses/hcas are like these robotic beings who don’t judge or acknowledge anything other than getting on with the procedure, view a vagina as just another body part like an elbow.

A post from a senior consultant on here was quite sobering. Several of her students thought a patient was mentally depressed/ill and one of the reasons was her lack of grooming her pubic hair.

I also can’t buy into the narrative pushed that drs/nurses/hcas are like these robotic beings who don’t judge or acknowledge anything other than getting on with the procedure, view a vagina as just another body part like an elbow.

This. I think I sort of bought into it before dc1 was born but when you've had a male obstetrician stand between your legs and commend you on your lack of stretch marks/sensible weight gain it makes you wonder. And yes, I was hugely uncomfortable throughout that conversation as I struggle with vaginal examinations at the best of times.

So, is this the home kit someone else mentioned? I have never heard of this

onlinedoctor.superdrug.com/hpv-test.html

Too many nurses and doctors out there with very low to no empathy for the women they are examining. You'd think they treat us better when they've specifically chosen to work with women's reproductive health. They're doing an invasive examination of our most sensitive body parts and it's awkward as hell, at least be gentle and understanding about it.

And another thing I don't see anyone mentioning is how it feels afterwards. After my latest smear I was sore and had bloody discharge for days. Not very pleasant.

Olenna Oh wow. Why indeed.

I actually didn’t know that. I wonder if you can pay for it on Medi Checks? When the NHS wouldn’t give me a proper thyroid panel, initially I had to use really expensive labs but now my regular checks just for key hormones, are only £39 on thyroid thursdays. So although not ideal or fair, I would pay for a urine test every few years for sure.

Does anyone know why we aren't peeing into a pot instead of having a smear test?

Tests four years ago showed that HPV could be detected in urine pretty effectively.

(The throwaway line in the article about this test perhaps being likely to be more acceptable to women than a traditional smear made me )