And so it came to pass: Mail on Sunday - gay male couple offered fertility treatment including surrogacy

Under UK law, when a baby is born, the woman who gives birth is the legal mother – whether or not she is biologically related to the child – and if she’s married, her partner is the legal other parent. After a surrogate mother has given birth, the intended parents must make an application to the family court to become the baby’s legal parents. In the eyes of the law, any written agreements between the intended parents and the surrogate are not enforceable.

It is obscene that the NHS is involved in a scenario where it is purposefully causing significant health risk to two separate healthy women, entirely and solely for the benefit of two healthy men.

I would add to this, two healthy men who will face no health risk to themselves at all. Otherwise spot on.

Can't help feeling this is all part of 2nd wave Eugenics. It's not just at the genetic level but also the surgical adjustments of cosmetic surgery.

Is the surrogate legally the mother at birth, if the egg came from someone else?
If not, that could be a reason for doing it that way - no chance of the woman deciding to keep her baby.

The men are healthy and fertile.
The surrogate mother will be healthy and fertile.
The egg donor will be healthy and fertile.

It is obscene that the NHS is involved in a scenario where it is purposefully causing significant health risk to two separate healthy women, entirely and solely for the benefit of two healthy men.

And that's even before you consider the moral implications of creating a child with the express purpose of removing it from its mother at birth.

I imagine that if you're going to be pregnant for nine months, knowing that you're pregnant with your own baby would be pretty heart breaking when it was time to give it up.

Obviously everyone has different views on this but genetics or no, I think it is the surrogates baby. It is her blood that has grown and nourished it. Regardless of genetics it is still flesh of her flesh, IMO.

You can’t be paid to be a surrogate in the uk

Not at the moment, which chimes with a most of Europe, some other EU countries outlaw it altogether.

My concern is that Brexit combined with some heavy duty behind the scenes lobbying using the same tactics that was pushing the GRA through under the radar will position mens right to a child (via surrogacy) as a civil rights issue.

There was a thread a year or two ago where Amnesty brought out guidance that framed it in a similar way.

I predict it's going to be the next hot button topic via Twitterati and the woke left. As well as SWERFs and TERFs anyone who disagrees will be a SERF or whatever slur they come up with.

You can’t be paid to be a surrogate in the uk, so presumably a female friend or relative has offered to carry the baby for them, but they are using a donor egg and ivf.

IVF should only be used if the surrogate can't get pregnant naturally, surely? Have they tried?

You can’t be paid to be a surrogate in the uk, so presumably a female friend or relative has offered to carry the baby for them, but they are using a donor egg and ivf. Is that a problem - not sure it is, unless you object to all surrogacy.

One could perhaps argue its unfair what the state will fund. Older women, women who have other children (even if it is an adult stepchild or their child has died) have been known to be ineligible.

I imagine that if you're going to be pregnant for nine months, knowing that you're pregnant with your own baby would be pretty heart breaking when it was time to give it up.

If there are no willing donors then there are no donors who one can use and maintain any claim to being an ethical person. Why is this the NHSs problem?

that’s a lot of drugs and intervention for the woman/women

The two men who want a baby either don't realise this or don't care.

The married couple hope to conceive their own baby using sperm from one of them and a surrogate mother who will bear the child.

Saying the married couple hope to conceive their own baby is batshit. Two men can't conceive their own baby.
One of the couple hopes to conceive a child with a woman. It will be the man and woman's child. The other male will only be related to the baby legally.

Eh?

I meant the woman as in the female surrogate and/or egg doner.

I appreciate the relationship is two men, but women still need to be heavily involved, right?

IVF doesn’t become less invasive because you’re not planning to parent the baby.

Oh shit sorry I misunderstood.

For some reason I thought people would use the turkey baster method and the surrogate would get pregnant from her own eggs.

I didn’t realise IVF was the preference. Gosh that’s a lot of drugs and intervention for the woman/women, although I guess the eggs might be ‘spares’ from women who’ve had IVF for themselves. Are there many surrogates around willing to subject themselves to IVF? I’ve never had it but close friends have and I understood it to be quite traumatic.

This is disgusting. Is not having a woman available for your seed a medical condition now? I was under the impression that the NHS is only meant to be correcting medical issues not providing women to men, have I misunderstood?

If you have PCOS or endometrioses, you have a medical condition that is being treated. Your body is functioning incorrectly so they are, as a medical service helping you to achieve your body's aim of pregnancy.

Are single heterosexual men going to be allowed this service as well? I can't see how it would be legal to discriminate against them on the basis that they aren't gay. They don't have a woman.

Just googled egg donation. First ad for a company UK patients can now enjoy all of the benefits of the USA’s leading donor egg fertility program. In addition to donor egg choice and donor anonymity, SGF provides a simplified donor egg treatment process that only requires two trips to our centre located near Washington, DC
All the NHS egg donor information says donating to another woman, does this now include transwomen? Do egg donors have rights, can they refuse surrogates i.e. only donate to a mother? I feel slightly sick.

This way this story is set out is confusing: the DM quote is that no anonymous egg donors were available to this couple.

What has this to do with the surrogacy? Agreeing to donate eggs and agreeing to carry a pregnancy through surrogacy are quite distinct and different things.

The UK removed anonymous sperm egg or embryo donation back in the 00s. Absolutely nobody can legally access anonymous eggs from a UK clinic.

@JSmitty 😂 yes the trans women can provide. Problem solved!

Shirley Trans eggs will be even better than cis eggs?

Batteriesallgone

They don't both have fertility problems:

The married couple hope to conceive their own baby using sperm from one of them and a surrogate mother who will bear the child.

It's being treated as a 'fertility issue' because neither of them has a working womb and ovaries.

@OvaHere a lot of gay couples are against the US system though and think our system is better they just need more legal recognition earlier.

Surely this must be quite rare though that both men would have fertility issues?

How common is it for men to have fertility problems?

I don’t think it’s right that IVF is a postcode lottery, but I can’t get too worked up if this is a once in a blue moon situation.

On a seperate note I think surrogacy should be illegal.