I see Daily Mail links posted here a lot for a source

is that the one we're not allowed to discuss

I don't know about that. I'm not discussing it, anyway. I just thought I'd "leave it here", as the OP said.

is that the one we're not allowed to discuss, OldCrone?

I do smile at the Daily Mail hatchet pieces that they deliberately frame as being fawning towards the people involved.

Like this one from a couple of days ago.

My late grandfather could do lectures on how to burst a blood vessel ranting at the TV about Thatcher. He was the first person to show me passion about politics. I still remember my grandmother patting his hand and saying "that women will be the death of you Jack".

Funny how all is man-haters love these men so much

I do smile at the Daily Mail hatchet pieces that they deliberately frame as being fawning towards the people involved. They are masters at this.

Like the drag queens doing the BDSM calendar for Mermaids, the transgender charity for children.

linky

The piece was ostensibly gushingly positive towards both the drag queens themselves and Mermaids. The journalist made sure that BDSM and Mermaids was very firmly linked in the minds of the readers, with lots of sexualised pictures accompanying the article. It was very neatly done.

Of course Mermaids loved the article and retweeted it.

He can tag team with my dad who even now loves watching debates and politics where lots of different views are represented because he says you learn nothing only listening to one voice, and laments that it's becoming harder to find decent debate anywhere.

pombear's dad should be teaching media and critical thinking at Goldsmiths.

It's fascinating in terms of human nature, I think. And I'm using fascinating in a genuine sense there, rather than in the way I do often use it here which is short hand for "showed your petticoat there, love."

It's very fashionable even still, among certain people, to scorn the DM, and I do suspect that's because they are actually scorning the people they perceive to be 'the kind of people that read the DM'. Which has all sorts of connotations wrt class and privilege, tbh.

I'm not a cheerleader for the paper, but it presents a certain editorial point of view and yes, will mock drunken women on NYE as much as it carry news about violence against women and children.

But I can't think of a mainstream newspaper or outlet without fault because people are a very complicated mix of good bad and our media reflects that. If you sit there and think that your news sources are all very sound and that you don't have weaknesses and blind spots to the exact same degree as every other human in our society, you're kidding yourself.

Raises a glass to pombear’s dad.

I know there is much discussion about children and young people being digital natives. My experience has been that while children are very good at finding material, they’re pretty shite at making critical assessments about the material they find.

In a world where a major Australian political scandal was broken by the New Idea of all sources, I’ll take my facts from the people willing to report them.

The Mail covers stories about domestic violence and violence against and abuse of children which other papers don't.

I agree, Marguerita.

Pombear, my Father did this with me. He also took me to the library every week and persuaded the librarian to let me read more adult books than an 8 year old usually would. It has stood me in good stead in interpreting the news. He would have loved the internet.

Unfortunately for the role I work in, which they cover quite a lot, they often have stories a day before the decent papers, in more detail and accurately. It kills me, but I go on it for that reason.

I rather suspect it's because they're used to interacting on Twitter, where blocking is almost reflex for some people

I imagine that's why transactivists last about five seconds on here. They simply can't form a logical argument, nor can they stop themselves from breaking talk guidelines.

If they hate mumsnet so much and think we are overly influential, you'd think they'd come on here, en masse, and put their argument forward.

I used to think it's because they didn't want to draw attention to the site, but now I realise it's only because they have no argument.

Although I still think they make a huge mistake in signposting everyone to us on the basis of their own prejudice.

If you use search engine in the daily mail. You get reuters and lots of other links. I have thought the DM was more of a gossipy magazine for years now. A bit of fun but for NEWS you have to search further afield.

The Mail covers stories about domestic violence and violence against and abuse of children which other papers don't.

It may even be the case that this true of the other red tops. The Mail might well laugh and point at silly and/or drunk women spilling out of too tight dresses but it has little tolerance for men hitting women.

I agree about the Guardian and Cologne. That really opened my eyes. They just didn't want to report on it at all. Threw assaulted women under the bus for ideological reasons. Could not report the wrongdoings of darker-skinned men for fear we would all turn into Nazis upon reading about it.

Bit of a thread diversion but:

I'm left wing (but politically homeless right now since Labour did its 'thing' - well, its many 'things'!). My dad is too.

When I was a teenager he did the best thing ever in terms of learning about media perspectives. It's stayed with me for years.

He came home once with all the papers on the same day.

And we read the same stories in different papers, and talked about the way they were represented differently.

If you ever saw the paper in his shopping basket, many people would make instant decisions on his political leanings,. And they'd be very wrong.

He taught me to read widely, challenge your own beliefs, step outside your echo chamber (not that it was called that, back then, I think!) listen and read other perspectives.

I'm not an academic, so I'm probably using the wrong words here.

But this sort of help in developing critical thinking, even if it's just your dad showing you how different papers report the same story, is such an essential skill for helping us not to retreat into tribalism, blinkered thinking, and not being able to understand the perspectives of those we may disagree with.

And to avoid falling into the trap of assuming that, because the source is one that you're most politically-aligned, it's always 'right' and others are 'wrong'.

Thanks Dad

Yes, we must put all truth in the hands of our liberal left betters, who know how to properly improve the lessers.

This.

Agree that the Guardian failed terribly when they declined to cover, in even the most neutral way possible, reports coming from Cologne; it was difficult not to feel that their political position compromised their journalistic integrity.

Freakin drive-by right-thinkers...

Datun, I rather suspect it's because they're used to interacting on Twitter, where blocking is almost reflex for some people. They don't know how to do more than post links and soundbites that they think are mic drop moments and run.

It works for them on Twitter because they just block any dissenting or critical answers. It don't fly here.

I personally do not trust anyone who tries to stop me using alternative news sources, or worse still tries to tell me what is "good" and what is "bad" news.

This

I often wonder why people post opening posts like that.

It does fuck all for their argument, apart from dismantle it.

What's the point?

It's almost like someone believes women are a bit stupid, unable to approach information with an analytical eye and need to be told not to read certain things.

Doesn't sound very feminist to me.

Maybe you left the link in the wrong place?

Also, having spent a whole evening reading the Wiki ‘Talk’ page on ‘Transwoman’ I am very much aware of how dominant voices set narratives for others to follow. Wouldn’t give their stance on the Daily Mail any credence at all, frankly. Pot, kettle, black.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3415212-WTF-Wikipedia