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Original poster

I've had a response

80 replies

GerryblewuptheER · 21/01/2019 13:10

From girl guiding. Please help.me word a reply

Thank you for your email.

Our E&D policy is based on the expectations set out in the Equality Act 2010. The policy was reviewed and agreed by our board of trustees and our chief commissioner group in 2016 and the guidance updated in 2017.

We have worked on our new updated guidance with Gendered Intelligence and Stonewall, and have been in dialogue with the EHRC. We have also sought legal advice and responded to questions from members and parents to make sure the guidance helps them as much as possible

The guidance that supports our volunteers to follow our E&D policy was written based on good practice and knowledge from specialist organisations that support charities like ours to look after our young trans members.However we have an annual policy review process where we look at all of our policies to check they are still fit for purpose and to update them if necessary

I hope that this answers your question.

Best wishes

OP posts:
Original poster
GerryblewuptheER · 22/01/2019 12:28

Well it's taken some time to word and attempt to not make it sound threatening merely factual but it's sent.

I do not hold out much hope for a response..how can you respond to this...

But I have a record at least. And i can say that I tried for my dds and of course eveeyone else's..

agnes I cannot thank you enough for the sacrifices you have made to stand up for girls at a time when no one else is. Sending an.email is the least i can do.

And thank you to everyone in this thread who posted with suggestions and comments!!

I will.of course up date of I get a response.

In the mean time...GinCakeWine

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TriciaF · 22/01/2019 09:53

Sorry if someone has already posted this but how about suggesting that they seek advice from other organisations such as www.transgendertrend.com/?

howonearthdidwegethere · 22/01/2019 09:00

Good advice at the top of this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3397559-Liability-insurance

You could always write to the insurer separately but mention that you intend to do so in your letter to GG (using words from thread above).

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 22/01/2019 05:23

You could ask them if they have declared to their Public Liability insurer that they are now a mixed sex organisation, because it certainly constitutes a material change in the risk. If not, then they should do so, because under the Insurance Act 2015 they have a duty of fair presentation.

AgnesBadenPowell · 21/01/2019 20:23

Well done for pursuing this and keeping up the pressure. You’ve had good advice here, especially about the insurance angle - I have some professional knowledge in this area and just don’t see how GG or their insurers will be able to defend a future claim when they knew there was a risk, harm was foreseeable and yet they chose to ignore it. And that’s before we get to issues around excluding girls who must have single sex spaces, or who just don’t believe in gender in gender identity. GG actually says on its website that no member shall be at a disadvantage due to their political or religious beliefs...

I’m not in GG anymore (appeal still ongoing) but happy to help however I can.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 21/01/2019 18:12

It’s necessary to ask them whether they have informed Amlin, Aon & Lloyds that they are now mixed sex, without obtaining the consent of their membership & parents and without carrying out a comprehensive 360degree impact and risk assessment on how girls rights to safety, dignity and privacy are not adversely affected by the competing rights of trans children and trans adults? Further, would they outline the new internal protocols for ensuring that any girl and woman female sexed body will not be put in harms way from allowing male sex bodied adult and children into their intimate spaces that were previously women and girl sex only?

Plus whether the insurers had carried out their own independent risk reassessment now the service provision is mixed sex,not single sex without obtaining the informed consent of membership, employees and parents?

Also, how did they ensure that Stonewall etc’s recommendations for allowing transgirls and transwomen to use and work at GG, do not erode the rights of girls and women to a choice of single sex female only provision, as underpinned by. International Law?

Finally, what steps have been taken to reassess the increased risk to girls and women’s female sex safety, given that clinical research has clearly demonstrated that the offending patterns for transwomen and transgirls during and after transition are the same as for males sex bodied, not female sex bodied and have Amlin, Aon & Lloyd’s as well as their membership and parents been notified of those facts and the increased risks associated with them?

LangCleg · 21/01/2019 17:47

ALWAYS the same themes mentioned as root of failure

Also, lack of information sharing. Information sharing saves lives.

JellySlice · 21/01/2019 17:35

Perhaps also mention that excluding trans-identifying girls removes them from a physically and emotionally healthy support structure at a time when they are particularly vulnerable. GG is (should be!) the perfect environment for a gender-non-conforming girl, demonstrating and modelling acceptance of girls however they present.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 21/01/2019 17:28

Re serious case reviews: (I bang on about this constantly, sorry) ALWAYS the same themes mentioned as root of failure:

  1. Failure to face up to and ask the difficult questions, to proactively think the unthinkable (in this case for example that YES, males do utilise opportunities to abuse and this provides opportunity, you can't just insist that it would never happen/males are all lovely)

  2. Prioritising positive relationships with other adults above the best interests of children. (in this case, look at us skipping into a beautiful inclusive sunset hand in hand with stonewall and mermaids and happy trans girls and ignoring the damn great safeguarding ugly mess we just created)

And yes. Remind: risks informed. I have kept written record. I will be happy to supply to an inquiry/serious case review. Please confirm your willingness to accept liability.

Original poster
GerryblewuptheER · 21/01/2019 17:26

Excellent work!
Thank you!

Just to check there won't be any legal ramifications for me if I cc In the insurance providers?

I must try and find that Twitter thread now that had a list of Stone wall organisations.... see if there guys are on it..

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ChickenonaMug · 21/01/2019 17:02

Cross post with Lang.

ChickenonaMug · 21/01/2019 17:01

I am so glad that you are replying. I was hoping that the new CEO would bring in some changes. Your reply suggests to me that she won't but I am not sure.

I think that maybe these are the insurers - Aon Ltd

www.girlguiding.org.uk/globalassets/docs-and-resources/finance-insurance-and-property/girlguiding-public-liability-insurance-certificate-2019.pdf

LangCleg · 21/01/2019 17:00

It's here:

www.girlguiding.org.uk/globalassets/docs-and-resources/finance-insurance-and-property/girlguiding-public-liability-insurance-certificate-2019.pdf

Policy Number LI/9366239 issued by MS Amlin

Brokers: Aon UK

Original poster
GerryblewuptheER · 21/01/2019 16:28

How do I get the insurers email?

I'm having difficulty locating it on the gg website

I know chicken I don't expect a reply I just can't I'm good conscious not respond Sad

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Original poster
GerryblewuptheER · 21/01/2019 16:02

Fab suggestions thank you!

I will be drafting it later when kids are in bed and I have access to the pc.

You lot are so great...thank you

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ChickenonaMug · 21/01/2019 16:01

I want to say to them that the e &d policies now exclude children from a religious background, those with disabilities who require help for intimate care feom sake sex care givers and any girl who has been assulted, harassed, abused and requires a safe spave away from males.

Girlguiding are fully aware of how their policy may well impact on girls who have been sexually abused. I have written to them 3 times to explain, drawing on my own experiences. I have highlighted concerns about the lack of care and safeguarding they are demonstrating for an already extremely vulnerable group of girls. They replied, after my second email, with a reply that was very similar to the ones received by others and did not address any of the points I had made. I wrote again just before Christmas and have not heard anything back. I have always had to chase them to reply.

In this thread I have expressed some of the concerns I raised with them.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3436030-What-actually-is-safeguarding

nauticant · 21/01/2019 15:56

Mentioning liability insurance is one thing that might get them to pay attention. And it's not just whether they're insured. It's whether, being insured and being made aware of a risk, they did nothing to ameliorate that risk.

Bowlofbabelfish · 21/01/2019 15:35

Outline your concerns and follow it with something like ‘in the event of a serious case review it will be noted that you were made aware of, and dismissed, these concerns.’

Copy in everyone you can think of in the organisation, including their insurers

When the sad and inevitable happens, I don’t want any of these woke idiots whining they weren’t aware. They are and they will be complicit.

Original poster
GerryblewuptheER · 21/01/2019 14:27

That's a good one!

I shall be including that!

OP posts:
LangCleg · 21/01/2019 14:24

Ask them if they have liability insurance.

Original poster
GerryblewuptheER · 21/01/2019 14:09

gently

I basically asked them if in light of the veritas report finding AC unable to understand safeguarding, whether or not they would be reconsidering their policy that allows for mixed sex showering and sleeping

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Gentlygently · 21/01/2019 14:05

What was the question?

Original poster
GerryblewuptheER · 21/01/2019 13:48

I will.do that thank you. Then i can.hopefully word the reply tonight.

In so angry. Girls are not mentioned once. In an.organisation meant to centre them and set up entirely to combat the many issues girls face in the world to this day.

And all they care about is xy people.

And what's worse is we can't even frickin say that they are Angry

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happydappy2 · 21/01/2019 13:42

Gerry Pencilsinspace (Think thats her user name) is brilliant at writing clear concise letters, maybe message her direct?

OlennasWimple · 21/01/2019 13:35

Gendered Intelligence promotes the acceptance of gender variance. Which is nothing to do with moving from a same sex organisation to one that accepts both sexes as long as members of the other sex conform to gender stereotypes

Do the Girl Guides understand the difference between sex and gender? Or do they think that we are all jelly babies that fall between GI Joe and Barbie?