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Original poster

Consent is not the be-all and end-all

334 replies

MagicMix · 18/01/2019 11:14

Following on from the thread about the impact of porn and other threads about the implausibility of consent to brutal practices.

The focus on sexual consent in feminism in recent years has been positive to a certain extent but I think we have lost nuance when we consider consent to be the key to sexual ethics.

Consent is not a green light for whatever you want, it is the bare minimum. Sex without consent is obviously very wrong (rape or sexual assault). And most feminists have at least some understanding that coerced consent is a problem and does not equate to true consent, although some seem unable to understand that paying someone is clear-cut coercion.

But we have to go further. Consent does not make everything all right. There are some things that can never be all right and the anti-kink-shaming 'sex-positive' thinking that refuses to condemn anything as long as someone is getting sexually aroused by it has led us down some very dark paths.

If you can stomach it, here is an article about a woman who claims to be sexually aroused by being waterboarded.
www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/waterboarding-kink-sex-bdsm-torture-779066/
Now I don't believe her and my personal opinion is that the M is BDSM is a form of self-harm, but really that is not the main point. The point is, somebody did that to her because she asked for it. People are quite literally torturing other people in the pursuit of sexual pleasure and we are expected to be non-judgmental.

The point is that the S in BDSM is sick and wrong. It was said on the other thread that we need to bring back kink shaming. Yes a thousand times. They can call me a prude, frigid, accuse me of being in a moral panic, I don't care. If someone gets sexual pleasure from hurting people, torturing people, acting out scenarios that put them in the role of rapist or slave-owner, I think that person has an unhealthy, dangerous sexuality and should seek help. It should not be accepted uncritically as harmless just because there was consent.

OP posts:
Eatmycheese · 18/01/2019 12:34

Consent isn't the be all and end all........

I actually think the requirement to prove consent is the singularly most damaging concept judicially or culturally for a modern, civilised society. I believe it sends out a message that subconsciously reinforces many of the messages that persistently damage women and make us more vulnerable and disrespected..

I refuse to accept that there are more - if this - a tiny number of individuals who would maliciously pursue allegations of rape or sexual assault given how skewed the process is against victims. It is my own personal view that by being required to prove consent; far from safeguarding the right to say no, it actually, imperils it. It is my view that the woeful prosecution never mind conviction rates are largely because of consent. This is compounded by the defence of reasonable belief.

A victim has to show they didn't do something. How impossible is that? Almost completely.

Sorry a little off topic perhaps but I just wanted to share my on thoughts.

Oxytocindeficient · 18/01/2019 12:03

I believe people who say they like to be tortured etc have deep psychological issues. They’re vulnerable people. We are meant to have protections and support for people who are like this, and penalties for those that take advantage.

RiverTam · 18/01/2019 11:58

yes, I agree and I don't care how much of a boring prude that means I am.

I refuse to tolerate the intolerable.

Original poster
MagicMix · 18/01/2019 11:56

I'm also early 30s and I know men my age and a bit older (publicly genial, mild-mannered men) who openly claim the identity of sexual sadist (or dom as they would say). And they want it accepted as a sexual orientation and added on to LGBTQWERTY. Of course they are also 'feminists', even though they love hurting women. For all their talk of consent, I regard them as potentially dangerous men (more so than a random average man, I mean) and would never willingly be alone with them.

N.B. If anyone was thinking of saying it or a lurker was thinking it, no I don't think it is OK for women to be sexual sadists either.

OP posts:
SharkBastard · 18/01/2019 11:55

Any sexual pleasure that stems from trauma, humiliation, or bodily damage should not be celebrated. Bring back Kink Shaming for sure

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 18/01/2019 11:50

Agree. I honestly don't understand how we've got here. How did it become OK to harm and injure someone. I don't understand how this happened. When did sex stop being about having fun and making the two people involved feel pleasure? Even when I was at school and University, this was still the point of sex. I am early 30s so that wasn't that long ago and I don't know how or why it seems to have changed to something so unrecognisable so quickly.

Badstyley · 18/01/2019 11:43

Any sexual act that might conclude in someone getting injured or where it’s advisable to have a legal agreement just sounds fucked up. I’m sorry to say, but if someone has got to the point where they can’t get sufficient arousal and satisfaction out of safe, non violent sexual acts then they need help, not encouragement. Also, for me, f someone has got to that point then I wouldn’t consider them capable of informed consent anyway. Nobody can consent to be brutalised, tortured and injured, and nobody should be doing that to another person full stop.

I’ll switch it around, someone who cuts them self who says they get a buzz or a release from it, that is not encouraged, in fact one could expect MH intervention, so why is it acceptable to do it to another person, or ask that someone else does it for you?

Nowadays it seems that if sexual pleasure is the motivation then anything goes, even when by any other measure or in any other situation it would be viewed as a serious problem.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 18/01/2019 11:21

Couldn’t agree more.

VickyEadie · 18/01/2019 11:18

The point is that the S in BDSM is sick and wrong. It was said on the other thread that we need to bring back kink shaming. Yes a thousand times. They can call me a prude, frigid, accuse me of being in a moral panic, I don't care. If someone gets sexual pleasure from hurting people, torturing people, acting out scenarios that put them in the role of rapist or slave-owner, I think that person has an unhealthy, dangerous sexuality and should seek help. It should not be accepted uncritically as harmless just because there was consent.

AGREE.