Is alcohol a feminist issue?

I've only just seen this thread. I'm an alcoholic, in fact I plan to celebrate 30 years of sobriety in April. I've never been aware of sexism in AA. It's an amazing organisation.

I have never been aware of predators in AA and I've been to meetings in a number of places. Entering into relationships with newcomers is very much frowned on. It's called 13th stepping, I.e a step too far.

In fact when I was helping an old male friend get sober I was (very politely) questioned as to why I, obviously an old hand, was escorting a newcomer to meetings. People at the meeting wanted to be sure my motives were pure.

However I've looked at online American AA forums and was horrified to see that it's a significant problem there. This is largely because AA in the USA accepts referrals from the courts. So you have sometimes quite serious offenders who have to have their card stamped to prove they've been at their AA meeting. But the other members aren't told that this man has a criminal record. That's against the principles of AA and it exposes women members in particular to potentially dangerous men. In fact a woman was murdered there.

But, as I said, I've never heard a whisper of sexual exploitation here in the UK. We know newcomers are incredibly vulnerable - but sex isn't the main issue. The danger is that they become close to someone with shaky sobriety and then, when their mentor relapses they do too.

There's also the risk that two newcomers get close - no exploitation - and then both relapse.

Once you're going to meetings it's suggested that you look for a sponsor - basically a mentor, someone with years of good sobriety. Your sponsor should be of the same sex. Unless you're same sex attracted.

Some of the most valuable times in an AA meeting are the chats outside. At those times groups tend to split along sex lines.

As you can imagine I can say a lot about alcoholism, AA and drinking generally. But this post is epic already.

I drink beer because I like beer. It tastes delicious. The huge variety of craft and micro breweries that have appeared in recent years are producing beer of unprecedented diversity, complexity and variety. There has never been a better time to be a beer enthusiast.

I will continue to enjoy beer and I couldn’t possibly care less what some patronising, sanctimonious writer thinks about it.

No. I had an alcoholic mother. I am not a stranger to women with drinking problems. But alcohol is very much a societal issue that affects both men and women .

Contented people don't self medicate. In the past women have used booze, then valium, and cigarettes. Now its booze again.
The next generation are having their breasts surgically removed and taking testosterone.

Was that 'small beer'?

At the time, beer was about 1 or 2% alcohol and was routinely drunk in vast quantities by workers as it was safer than well water, having been boiled as part of the production process.

Hogarth's print "Gin Lane", depicting the effects of gin on the poor, was published in 1751

Gin Lane wasn't an anti-drinking poster. It was actually an advert for booze! Not gin, clearly. But Gin Lane was one of a pair, the other was Beer Street (on the left in the picture) which showed a happy scene of people merrily drinking beer after a hard day's work.

There was a public debate about gin at the time.

The problem is not the drug women use to self medicate; its the fact that their lives under capitalist and patriarchal rule are unnatural and unsatisfying. Its the symptom not the dis-ease

oh good grief.

It's a feminist issue because it's a women's health issue.

The detrimental effects of heavy drinking affect women's health years before it affects men's health.

Aiming products and advertising at women, I find harder to criticise when alcohol advertising for decades has been aimed at men. To an extent providing pink gin recognised that women are consumers with disposable income. It is an achievement that we are finally useful.

Yes, but these were pastel coloured and came in a nice box. Our neighbour used to smoke them as a luxury cigarette and I always wanted one - they were so pretty!

Menthol cigarettes were almost exclusively aimed at women.

The different physical and addiction effects on women are interesting, but I don't have much sympathy for those who are suckered in by 'glam' gin and prosecco advertising. Surely that has more effect on what you drink rather than whether or how much you drink?

Is someone really trying to claim that this isn't gendered?

Of course it's gendered. But why are women any more suscebtible to female-targeted advertising than men are to male-targeted advertising (laddish beer adverts, aspirational whisky adverts etc)?

It's also interesting that young people are drinking less and less alcohol. Maybe young women are more swayed by the hipster health guru, yoga bunny influencers rather than the swirly, glittery prosecco sellers.

Does anyone else remember the coloured cigarettes that were marketed to women?

I''m still slightly aghast at the pp who said that they didn't think that there was advertising aimed at women...

Babycham, with its little cute deers served in little glasses?

All the various pink drinks, as a pp said?

Cocktails (including in cans in shops with swirly pastel writing on them)?

The huge rise in popularity of prosecco, along with the "wine o'clock" and assorted merchandise (usually in pretty, swirly writing with a dose of glitter)?

Is someone really trying to claim that this isn't gendered?

Drinking alone is a warning sign that you might have a problem.

So is drinking with other people, potentially.

You've got a problem if you can't function without alcohol. Whether you prefer to drink alone or with others is neither here nor there.

Excellent post KataraJean

After reading “The unexpected joy of being sober” I agree with you OP. The way alcohol is advertised to women as glamorous, as necessary, as rebellious, as empowering, is a co-option of feminism of sorts.

Another feminist aspect is the reason for the increase in women-specific drinking. Of course there is the “keeping up with the lads” at drinks after work but there is also the regular insidious drinking of isolated, lonely mothers coping with young children and finding themselves without the support they need.

After leaving the independence and freedom of working behind for four walls and a sleep deprived existence with a baby who demanded my time but gave me no intellectual return, this is how my drinking turned from odd night out to regular nights in and became a problem.

No longer, thanks to the marvellous Catherine Gray.

Drinking alone is a warning sign that you might have a problem. It's not proof you have a problem

Especially if you live alone and happen to like wine with your meal and a nice malt before bed.

*The (male-dominated) drinks industry made a concerted effort to specifically target women

Evidence for this? Alcohol advertising is strictly regulated in the UK. I go to the cinema regularly.. I can't think of any advert which was targeted at women or was promoting a "women's drink". The adverts for Foster's lager in fact seem to be directed at men*

Has anyone mentioned the 'culture of pink' lately? Pink fizz, pink Moscato, pink bottles, pink gin - all marketed at women? My local had a Rose tasting afternoon and the employee who knew me well (very rarely buy anything pink) suggested I attend. I said to let me know when they were opening the single malts and I'd be there.

And even before that the Gin Lane picture (cannot remember the painter, early nineteenth century)

1761, Hogarth.

KindOfAGeek the waiter you describe, should he exist and no doubt he or she does in various guises, does not act in a vacuum. He makes whatever judgements he makes and enacts because of the cultural and social values of the society he lives in.
The issues with pregnant women and alcohol were one of the first epidemiological issues to be recognised and subject to a public health campaign (foetal alcohol syndrome). These are things which permeate public consciousness, and fit with much longer ideas about female respectability and morality. Whereas male pay packets being spent down the pub and women being both beaten up and seeing the family money disappear on alcohol has a longer history in the other direction.

The point about mother’s ruin is really interesting and I think fits with these longer historical ideas about male and female behaviour. Women being seen through the lens of reproductive capacity and responsibility for children, but also adding in ideas about morality and respectability (the idea of being ruined through drink has a parallel in being ruined through pre-marital sex in the nineteenth century). Whereas as long as a man could turn up for work and meet his responsibilities there (even if the wage got spent down the pub on a Saturday night), he was meeting his societal obligations. Add that men could legitimately chastise their wives (cruelty was not a grounds for divorce in England until 1937, I think), then domestic violence after drink was routinely excused on grounds of provocation (for example, the wife legitimately complaining about the drinking or any minor thing).

That said, I certainly think Temperance material played on the idea of drink being the ruin of men and by association, their families. And even before that the Gin Lane picture (cannot remember the painter, early nineteenth century) shows the whole community in tatters. But more recently, where I grew up at least, men binge-drinking on pay day and drinking in between was culturally accepted.

I have departed from the point I think. It is difficult because on one hand, I think my father had a choice not to drink (he did eventually stop in his sixties when his health was badly affected) and on the other, the social and cultural values around masculinity made that choice harder. I wish he had stopped or not started, because he was an alcoholic for decades. He is lucky to still be alive.

What is misogynistic about the 12-step programme?

My mother never actually admitted to being an alcoholic or joining a recovery programme, despite ending up in hospital and nearly dieing on more than one occasion, so I don't really know what they say. Gin very literally was "Mother's ruin" in her case, although she had apparently started with heroin back in the '60s, so alcohol was probably seen as the lesser of two evils. Another misogynistic term there - don't think I've ever heard whiskey or special brew or anything being referred to as "father's ruin".

KataraJean

Yes, there are additional issues involved with alcohol and women drinking. There are also male waiters who make a deliberate point out making sure the wine ordered for the table isn't for the pregnant woman, but serves the drunk known to beat his wife with a happy smile.

miralis

If you don't understand it, you don't understand it.

You are focussing on mummy walking around with a few under her belt, and not why she does that or offering alternatives.