Is alcohol a feminist issue?

I think most of my female friends (mid 30s-mid 40s - so drinking in the 90s) can "drink like a man" (i.e. at the very least match them drink for drink in the pub on nights out), probably prided ourselves on being able to do so when we were younger, have just accepted it as the norm now

this attainment of equality (and the Lancet shows British women drink as much as British men now) is bad news for women

If young people are drinking less there's a chance this was a blip? Maybe?
I'm about the same age and likewise can match a bloke drink for drink. I shouldn't, I shouldn't even try, because I'm much smaller than a bloke and built differently and it will affect me in a different way and and and.
But at least if a 21 year old woman doesn't see the need to, and her friends don't either, and they drink less as a result, perhaps it will sort itself out?
Just being optimistic I think.

Weren't menthol cigarettes originally marketed as healthy, something you'd smoke for throat problems? Obviously before the links to cancer were widely known.

When I was doing research for my dissertation many moons ago, I remember being unimpressed by reading about men who got drunk on payday (first half of the 19th century, this was,) - one was known for regularly drinking 16 quarts in a night and getting drunk and starting fights. I wrongly thought this was 4pts (much less than we'do have drunk bit now a night out in the SU bar,) but I later learnt a quart is two pints, a quarter of a gallon, so he was actually drinking 32pts. Even if it was just small beer, I don't see how someone can physically take in that much liquid, regardless of alcoholic content. But anyway, there were always problems with some men pissing their wages away, as someone mentioned upthread.

Passive drinking is a concept that makes a lot of sense to me. Casualty departments at weekends are stuffed with people suffering the effects of other people's drinking.

How many women in refuges are there because of drink? How much male violence and sexual abuse is fuelled by drink?

Then there's the damage done to the children of alcoholics of both sexes. I see it all the time on Mumsnet threads - having an alcoholic parent scars people for life.

@MissFitton - thank you! It must have been these! I remember being offered one as a joke (their joke, obviously) and then getting upset when of course they didn't mean it. I even remember the flat tray - all very elegant. I never smoked btw! As a 60s and 70s child, I still remember the awfulness of a room where everybody smoked and there was a blue-grey haze above.

Menthol cigarettes were almost exclusively aimed at women.
And black people, in the US
Uptown
I'm not sure marketing has done anything other than identify a market and target it. Men still get beer gift sets and t-shirts with brewer names on and beer branded slippers and their magazines are full of adverts for crap quality whisky. The pink sparkly prosecco tat that seems to be everywhere is just an exploitation. The 90s were alcopop years from 2005! but now nobody buys or drinks them.
A pp referenced pre-drinks. Young people mostly do that because it's cheap, and the venue they are going to is either too expensive or too difficult to do any serious drinking in. So they get pissed in their mate's kitchen and save the venue for selfies. This is quite common.
I think alcohol is a feminist issue insofar as judgement is biased (women suffer more) treatment is unequal (men have better provision) etc.
I also think these are apt questions still:
1. Have you ever decided to stop drinking for a week or so, but only lasted for a couple of days?
2. Do you wish people would mind their own business about your drinking-- stop telling you what to do?
There are ten more, here
Defensiveness about alcohol is always obvious.

Some posters have argued that alcohol isn’t a feminist issue because it affects everyone. But if we say something is a feminist issue we surely mean- it is capable of being analysed in feminist terms, ie in terms of the gendered social expectations of women, our role in society, and women’s specific needs, economic social or medical.

And if you look at it this way: certain forms of alcohol are clearly marketed in a way that ties in with the stereotypical ways we’re encouraged to see ourselves, fun, pink and giggly, Prosecco o’clock; women often drink to cope with the burden of childcare and work, in an environment where often men take on a very minor share of the exhausting domestic burden (self medication); women are often the victims of alcohol fuelled violence in the home; and alcohol has significant medical effects for us, particularly at the high strengths we’re encouraged to drink it (pink gin, white wine, breast cancer).

So, isn’t this obviously susceptible to feminist analysis?

It's an interesting issue. I remember watching a documentary a few years ago, where wine producers/ad people were interviewed re the shift in the late 70s/early 80s from wine being something almost exclusively consumed by the middle/upper classes, rarely on the menu in pubs etc to being so popular as it is today.
They explained, in no uncertain terms, that the shift was women. It was because more women were going into the work place, having their own money, women were starting to venture into pubs to socialise (previously only certain 'type' of women would be seen in a pub) and because women were unlikely to want to drink big, manly pints...something elegant in a dainty glass for women's little hands etc. René Pogel wine was a brand which LITERALLY was LEG OPENER spelled backwards.

not usually seen as female diseases I mean

Not in this country, but I remember being in the US and being surprised by how openly Virginia Slims were marketed at women. Very slim cigarettes were definitely a woman’s cigarette.

In terms of alcohol and indeed tobacco use, I may be wrong but I think the perception that the drinker/smoker is male and this has historically been a male habit surely has had an impact on how related diseases are researched and recognised and related health education.

So the perception that women are not quite respectable if they drink means that alcohol-related diseases are not usually female diseases. It is probably more obvious with smoking where lung cancer was definitely associated with men who smoked heavily. So surely that is a feminist issue as well.

Beer Street - yes, they are merry but the street is not in disrepair and babies are not falling out of their drunken mothers’ arms.

The word for people who drink a bottle of wine in a few hours on their own is "alcoholic". If you are drinking that quantity of alcohol in one evening get help

Im fairly positive thats not the definition of alcoholic

Interesting discussion. I'm on the Dry January threads and it often comes up about the ubiquitousness of prosecco/gin particularly on social media. And I agree there's a world of difference how a drunk man (hilarious) is compared to a drunk woman (tragic).

@YetAnotherSpartacus - the cigarettes you're thinking of were sobranie - pastel colour papers and gold filters. I used to think I was sophisticated when I used them as my 'going out cigarettes' in the late eighties.

Why do you think it's small beer? The people drinking beer in the Beer Street picture certainly look merry to me. If gin's being compared to beer then I'd guess beer is being presented as a alcoholic drink not small beer, surely?

Was that 'small beer'?

Yes.

Good points nothing...

Thanks for the correct date for Gin Lane and even the image ⭐️

I thought eighteenth century but I remember the Beer Act being 1830 so mixed it up. Beer Street is nice and well-maintained compared to Gin Lane. Beer was seen to be better as less strong that spirits, probably also safer than water at that point (speculating here).

I was very shocked by the open heavy drinking discussed by mums at the school gate. Wine o'clock and mummy's special juice... I notice how most birthday cards for women reference alcohol. It's relatively new.

No, I know nothing about Rational Recovery, NothingOnTellyAgain. It wasn't around 30 years ago. I was desperate to stop drinking but anti AA for reasons that would take too long to explain, so I tried everything else on offer. Nothing worked. I was suicidal.

Then, finally, my parents got me into a 12 step rehab. About a fortnight in the penny dropped. It was a road to Damascus moment. I have never wanted to drink since. For me, AA was the only thing that worked.

Alcohol is def a feminist issue > this does not imply that men are not affected but that many facets are not the same or not quite the same

Policing of womens drinking by society / media is different
Issues around women and men drinking and what they do > women are blamed men seem to be let off hook to a certain extent "boys will be boys" this ties into point 1. Also around sex offences. Men more likely to commit when drunk but it's always the woman's fault and consumption of any alcohol at all is seen to be "asking for it"
Alcohol also used as most popular "date rape" drug > or even just in a predatory manner (plying girls and women with booze / encouraging them to drink more or lying about what's in drinks)
Reluctance to access support which is related to fears about interventions around children > I don't know if men worry about this so much and from my experience the attitudes towards mums who drink and dads who drink is VERY different in support services

Then there's the weird stuff. Why are "girly" drinks the more alcoholic ones? I have NEVER understood this!!!

Sure there is more :)

I don't know if people are aware how strong the genetic component is. Obviously people learn their drinking within the family, but the genetic component is very important too.

mirialis, I went to meetings about five times a week for the first couple of years then two for another six. By that point I hadn't wanted to drink for all that time. I also had two small DC. Having got the blessing from the AA member I most respected I then stopped going.

I have never kept my alcoholism any kind of secret and I've got a few people in, most recently two and a half years ago (the male friend I was questioned about). I went with him for the first six months but I was eager for him to make male contacts so I took a back seat. I was his sponsor short term, but I would never have done that for a male stranger. He soon got a proper one

So there's a big gap in the middle when I didn't go to meetings.

The difference now is the proportion of women in AA. It's risen, though men are still in the majority. And people are getting sober younger. Both are very good news.

That's very interesting and good news Prawn, thank you.

Earlier upthread I said that from my experience, anon support is best for women esp if they have kids. My experience of non anon was shocking (sexist). So AA is a good option.

Do you know anythign about Rational Recovery?

Interesting. I think alcohol is pushed heavily at both sexes - along with cheap sugar, crap telly etc as distraction from how shit life can be. There is no doubt that the UK has a problem with booze.

I think there’s definitely sex based differences in marketing. It’s ‘lads’ for the men and ‘Prosecco o clock’ for women. I’m still not sure that it’s disproportionately marketed at women or a specifically feminist issue (happy to change my mind on that if I see a good argument...)

Where I do think it’s an issue that disproportionately affects women is services to support women with alcohol issues during pregnancy - that sort of thing is affected a lot by austerity.

So yes and no. Some alcohol based issues affect women more (differences in metabolism and pregnancy) but I’m still not convinced this is a specifically feminist issue

Racecardriver wrote - "No... alcohol is very much a societal issue that affects both men and women"

This is not a reason why alcohol is not a feminist issue.

A feminist issue is something that affects female people.
A feminist issue does not have to be something that affects only female people.