Another day, another "She likes rough sex" defence

I hope he is found guilty. Horrific.

Bumping this thread because this monster's trial has started again.

www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/solo-45-trial-court-live-3560956

‘A date of November 11th has been set for the trial’

Crikey. That’s ages. Hope he’ll be held on remand?

I think that's probably wise. The last evidence was harrowing and I think gave the public enough of a view about the sort of man this is.

Glad things are still progressing a bit.

Is the poor lamb still unwell?

Why are you saying that is women's fault? How is a woman meant to predict that?

Shhheees. i'm not saying it's the women's fault I'm explaining what the defence is (IMO) and why it is so effective. If she wasn't there it wouldn't have happened, if the guy is such a monster, why did she want to have sex with him ? I think that a lot of misogyny stems from this perceived weakness. Men would not be in this situation so it's harder for them to fathom why women make themselves vulnerable and they also know what other men are like.

What a horrific case. What a horrific man. Those poor women. I even feel sorry for the jurors having to watch that. What the fuck is wrong with men? And I know not all men but men all the same.

Why two cases with a similarly horrible and frankly inexplicable form of torture within such a short timeframe? Is this a thing men as a group are wanking to now? There's really not way to frame this as sexual in any sort of "would physically feel good" way, it's just pure sadism, and it's alarming that the courts seem to be going "oh, yeah, spraying women with bleach during sex, sure, obviously some people are into that".

Yep, two separate men with no connection to each other. Some would say different "cultures", though both seem to be British and seems their "cultures" overlap in various ways.

I think it would be wise in the case of some comments/commenters to simply refrain from engaging.

It's rather alarming to see 2 separate cases of men with no apparent connection to each other who get off on the idea of spraying women with bleach. What internet porn hellhole are these men getting that particular form of torture from?

It's not just a little victim "blamey", it's entirely blaming the women, that's the point. I don't believe there is any reason to believe these women did not want to have sex with the accused, they did not know what was going to happen. That is the weakness

There is a world of difference between wanting to spend time with or get intimate with a man (ie develop a relationship and maybe that will lead to enjoyable sex, which most people manage to do), and him beating you, torturing you, and violently raping you to the point you think you're going to die.

Why are you saying that is women's fault? How is a woman meant to predict that?

The man is a monster and at the same time a man whom the victims wanted to perform the most intimate of acts with. An evil and depraved lunatic, but someone the victims willingly made themselves vulnerable to. That's the basic defence that is always pulled out. The jury have to believe he was both.

It's not just a little victim "blamey", it's entirely blaming the women, that's the point. I don't believe there is any reason to believe these women did not want to have sex with the accused, they did not know what was going to happen. That is the weakness, heterosexual men may shower with other men but they don't get naked and desire to be touched by them, they are not vulnerable in the same way, they don't have this inherent weakness.

His defence lawyer is a woman.
A woman who has previously defended Gary Glitter
The mind boggles

Men do not behave in the "exact same way" at all. Heterosexual men are not naked and intimate with other men, so they are not vulnerable in the same way.

But women only get naked and intimate with sexual partners. Saying that women are 'putting themselves at risk with that behaviour' is a quite victim-blamey. Men are naked around other men in changing rooms and showers, and yet nothing happens to them. They aren't at risk. They go out and get drunk and chat to other men, and nothing happens, but when women do it they're at risk.

"There is no point in us giving any attention to the culture these people belong to, because whites are just as bad, apparently. Despite the obvious evidence that white western societies are the best ones for women, the loathing of our culture and fear of being branded a racist, forbids some people admitting there might be a more specific problem."

Exactly, in the days following the Manchester Arena terrorist attack, there were articles in well known newspapers highlighting Islamophobia and the rise of far right extremism. When the various abuse cases involving thousands of young, white girls in Rochdale, Newcastle, Telford, Rotherham started to surface and the ethnicity of the perpetrators became known, certain news sources would say "but the majority of sex offenders are white".
In the Newcastle case, one of the offenders said "white women are good only for people like me to use as trash"

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/white-women-are-good-only-for-people-like-me-to-use-as-trash-jc7bvcjcb

but I don't think that necessarily means that other cultures are all "worse".

Really ?? Do you think all cultures are pretty much on a par as to their attitudes towards women ? If so I profoundly disagree with you.

This is classic whataboutery. There is no point in us giving any attention to the culture these people belong to, because whites are just as bad, apparently. Despite the obvious evidence that white western societies are the best ones for women, the loathing of our culture and fear of being branded a racist, forbids some people admitting there might be a more specific problem.

I don't know what you mean by this. Is it not more that (hetrosexual, or not) women are vulnerable/at risk from men in a way that men who are behaving in the exact same way are not?

Men do not behave in the "exact same way" at all. Heterosexual men are not naked and intimate with other men, so they are not vulnerable in the same way.

"but I don't think that necessarily means that other cultures are all "worse"."

I read it as "certain cultures are much worse", which is true, particularly if you look at women's rights in parts of Asia and Africa, where in certain countries FGM is rife, girls are not allowed to go to school, women are not allowed to work, religion (again a large part of culture) dictates how a woman behaves, what she wears, how she will be punished. Of course, the religions are all put in place by men, the rules enforced by men.

This is from an Islamic forum

"Fear Allaah with regard to women, for you have taken them as a trust from Allaah and intimacy with them has become permissible to you by the words of Allaah. Your right over them is that they should not allow anyone to sit on your furniture whom you dislike; if they do that then hit them but not in a harsh manner."

"If a woman rebels against her husband and disobeys his commands, then he should follow this method of admonishing her, forsaking her in bed and hitting her."

islamqa.info/en/answers/41199/hitting-ones-wife

It's possible of course to narrow down analysis of "men do bad things to women", we can be more specific and admit that certain cultures are much worse than "white" western culture in their treatment of women

I don't think that's correct. "White Western" cultures may sometimes abuse women in a different way (and often, in exactly the same way), but I don't think that necessarily means that other cultures are all "worse".

"Raise it and you are a racist and "but white men rape too"

Well, yeah, they do. It's prolific in the West. Where do Gillette sell most of their razors? Probably "the West"?

Heterosexual men would never make themselves vulnerable to another man the way heterosexual women do

I don't know what you mean by this. Is it not more that (hetrosexual, or not) women are vulnerable/at risk from men in a way that men who are behaving in the exact same way are not?

"we can be more specific and admit that certain cultures are much worse than "white" western culture in their treatment of women."

In public you are no longer allowed to point that out, and if you speak up then there will always be someone playing "racist" trump card.
If you mention knife crime in London, there is something you must not mention in public - ethnicity - both of victims and of perpetrators.
I was going to Victoria station back in 2010 when I came across the aftermath of this. All the perpetrators were from one ethnic group, the victim from another.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15310015

With regard to this subject and misogyny, there are as you say certain ethnic groups/cultures where violence against women is rife. I believe that Sarah Champion the Labour MP was treated in a disgusting manner, both by her own party and by some UK media, for commenting on the Rotherham child abuse/grooming scandal.
This article just shows the depths to which the Independent sunk.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/sarah-champion-the-sun-muslim-problem-should-have-known-better-newcastle-rotherham-rochdale-a7897801.html

Shouldn't say this because it is totally so un PC, but the whole culture of that and similar music

Well, indeed. This is something that annoys me too. It's possible of course to narrow down analysis of "men do bad things to women", we can be more specific and admit that certain cultures are much worse than "white" western culture in their treatment of women. Even beyond that general and obvious fact, we can see this music is blatantly deeply misogynistic. Raise it though and you are a racist and "but white men rape too" so there is no point in directly responding to it. Hence Gillette still show an advert showing a middle aged white guy making inappropriate sexual gestures towards a young black woman. No suggestion that there is any specific problem with any other culture, because that's racist. It infuriates me. The fact that young women even have to listen to this stuff is an outrage.

I noticed that the fact that women returned to him after the alleged rape/assault was used as sign that this was all consensual.

This is the cornerstone of all these defences though. Men know what other men are like, as a PP observed. Heterosexual men would never make themselves vulnerable to another man the way heterosexual women do, or gay men. I think that is the root of a lot of misogyny. It's a weakness.

When I go out with my daughter she has a playlist on her ipod. It has all sorts of music on it, for me, my granddaughter and my daughter. Juxtaposed, the other day, 'She Used to Be My Girl' about how wonderful his ex is, and 'She's Such a Fucking Ho'. No wonder young kids these days think sex should be violent. And that is just one of the songs, daughter calls them Mums Feminist Anthems, in a post ironic sort of way, because she knows they make me flippin fumin