The Child Who Was Never Born

I agree with PP that what women grieve who lose a pregnancy is the potential of what could be, projected into the future. And this is why some women who abort may develop complicated feelings.
When you detach the sculpture from the artist (a man, who tries to guilt trip women, according to the articles I now read up on), you can interpret it as the woman reconciling herself with the fact that this projection into the future whose loss she is grieving will not come to pass.
I think art can stand on its own and artists often cannot control the message it sends (after all they also have their subconscious blind spots).
So, in that light, the sculpture does not irritate me, and I even find the reflection about it insightful (I mean, the message of forgiving youself about paths not taken transcends the pregnancy loss theme).
Regarding the artistic value, I don‘t think the style is particularly original. So there‘s that.

There's an aspect of miscarriage not often spoken about and it's that the fetus is only potential at that point

Yes. I think it's different for women experiencing an ectopic pregnancy because the fetus isn't even potential.Either way both experiences are devastating.

Just noticed it was me started the other thread. I still agree with myself!

I thought it was mawkish and sentimental. I still agree with myself.

I agree regarding the blame angle even in a miscarriage spare, but for me I interpreted it as comforting the mother. For me I felt a connection to the child that had existed within me, that I had wanted and nurtured. In a way this piece was comforting because the child was still with me.

I agree about mourning the potential child and their future is what is one of the things that make miscarriage more than the loss of a pregnancy.

Yes, mourning a miscarriage, or a still born baby, or a child of a few weeks or years, or a parent, or a sibling, are all very different experiences. Not entirely sure of your point, if I'm honest. But these things are very personal.

But anyway, I agree that any notion of 'forgiveness' tied to a death is tremendously odd and crass and inappropriate. This art just reads as sentimental judgementalism, tbh.

spare

I think you have it spot on

When i had a my miscarriage i had already had a child and I mourned for the potential

Ds was and is an absolute joy, i knew exactly what i was missing

And i hadnt thought of it but you are right...i was supposed to get over a miscarriage and be devastated over an abortion

There's an aspect of miscarriage not often spoken about and it's that the fetus is only potential at that point. However sad I am (and always will be) about the miscarriages I had, I was mourning the potential and feeling distress about my future as each wanted pregnancy failed. It is different to mourning a loved one who has died. And the frequency with which miscarriages happen highlights how much an abortion is not so far from what we are expected to accept as just natures way.

Don't know if I've expressed that very well.

Hmm, would black people appreciate a white person making a sculpture about the misery of racism? I think not.

I think it's quite crass for a man to make art reflecting on a mother terminating or otherwise losing a pregnancy. There's a certain arrogance involved.

FeministCat great posts

It's a shitty message whatever way you look at this. If it was about miscarriage, laying blame on the woman is just as shitty

Great posts feminist cat. I agree with every word. You've really nailed the issue. Reading them, I was thinking that even if the statue was about miscarriage or still birth women don't need forgiveness, so it makes little sense in that context in terms of the artist's intent.

Oh, I forgot to include my other problem with it: using the common “trick” of showing a grown child as the victim of abortion. I know why they do it, because it is meant to incur an emotional response, but it is misleading. It was not a grown child who was aborted. Everyone realizes an embryo of fetus has the potential to become a child. But that potential should not veto the actuality of the girl or woman carrying the pregnancy and her right to make choices that are proper for her, be it abortion, adoption, or parenting. The only one that presents an alternative to not just parenting but also pregnancy is abortion.

Not my kind of art for many reasons, but especially due to the message. Just another example of a man (and I assume an anti-choicer) sending out a message as to how other women should feel about abortion or their abortion, and also in the piece giving power to an embryo or fetus over a born woman (the “child” has the power to forgive). I’d actually feel the same way if the artist is a woman - if she feels this way about abortion for herself fine, but even she cannot determine her feelings should be a message to all women.

My problems with it in short order:

1. A girl or woman does not need to be “forgiven” for having an abortion. Also see my last point.

1. It’s following that trope that women “suffer” the rest of their lives due to having an abortion that anti-choicers like to use to guilt-bully girls and women from making choices that feel right for them (some maybe regret their choice but many women I know including myself do not at all).

1. Again giving power to the embryo/fetus over the woman. Embryo/fetus has “power” to forgive a born girl or woman for making a choice appropriate for their situation.

1. Ignores the complexity behind the choice for abortion - some do not want a child yes which also can have many varying reasons behind it, but some did and abort as they are on critical medications that cause serious defects, or the pregnancy is dangerous to them, pregnancy is non-viable or the future child will be born with severe defects and/or in great pain with poor prognosis, it is result of rape, etc. Whatever the reasons it is always shitty to imply any woman needs to seek forgiveness or it.

Not shocked there are no statues for woman who are dead because they were denied an abortion at all, or a legal one, receiving forgiveness from those who denied them or participated in a system to deny them.

Ack. This is why this is such a polarized issue. Complete subjectivity, total reliance on emotionalism, art being used as propaganda, every one getting cross and talking past one another.

Does my frigging head in.

And I do feel angry that a male artist comments on the forgiveness of the mother but no comment on the father. The woman is the guilty one in all of this and we need a man to forgive us.

I think it’s a beautiful piece of viewed without any context but a shitty message he has attached to it.

Yes that is how I feel June.

It gets to me, but not for anti abortions reasons but because of a miscarriage. I think it’s a beautiful piece of viewed without any context but a shitty message he has attached to it. Abortion isn’t murder and doesn’t require any forgiveness of the women who made the choice.

I don't like it as a piece of art, and as someone who has miscarried much wanted babies and is pro choice because I don't believe anyone else has the right to force a woman to go through something as life changing as a pregnancy against her wishes but I do struggle a little with abortions I find the message grotesque and manipulative.

When a man has been in that position they may be able to produce a meaningful piece of art on the subject - I found Frida Kahlo's piece reflecting on her miscarriage gut wrenching. But this is art as moralising on something that could never affect the artist

Err I meant mourning. Thanks for your help as ever auto correct.

A father drowning for his aborted child would certainly be thought provoking. I’m sure I wouldn’t like it any better.

Or the fact that the mother is grieving - it suggests that this is the correct response to a decision to terminate.

I'm also pro-choice. I think it could be said to recognise that some woman do grieve after abortions sometimes rather than suggesting the correct response but I'd be more inclined to think that the artist recognised that if the artist was a woman.

I wonder what our views would be if it were a father and child.

I am pro choice and don’t like the “forgiveness” point this piece is intended to make

Or the fact that the mother is grieving - it suggests that this is the correct response to a decision to terminate. Left neutral, a woman grieving a lost pregnancy or child, it is fine.

I am pro choice and don’t like the “forgiveness” point this piece is intended to make.

However, I first saw this piece while in a dark place and going through miscarriages and I found it comforting.

If it is in the eye of the beholder and down to interpretation then then I do like it, but as a political point I don’t.

"The main intention of my brother to do the sculpture was not to be famous, but to speak about the important value of human life and the necessity to protect it"

I have zero interest in what any man thinks about terminations. They can have a say when they can conceive and birth their own babies. And raise them single-handedly as well for that matter.

This piece of art really gets to me and I'm very stoic.

If it was clear it was for miscarried or stillborn foetuses or for children who have passed away then fine. But NO to any connection with abortion. I loathe forced-birthers with the power of 1000 suns, as they say