Bath Leisure Centre, naked men in ‘changing village’

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2076409-Naked-man-in-communal-showers-Totally-stark-bollock-naked?reverse=1

This discussion made me think of this thread from years ago. I searched and found it was still there. I remember at the time being really shocked by how many people said the OP was uptight and he was doing nothing wrong.

Our changing village is in rows, and you can see down the rows from the pool, though not into the cubicles, as that view is blocked by the shower blocks which are at the end of each row, poolside.

If anyone was naked outside of cubicles or looking under cubicles, they'd probably be seen by a swimmer and/or lifeguard. (It's not all good. Sometimes you're swimming and bring your head up to breathe... in a lung-full of Lynx or similar spray.)

I've been to other pools with changing villages, and there's no visibility from the pool at all, so you could probably do more illicit things unwitnessed. So it's not just about changing villages per se, but the overall design.

Many other posters have said they only went once as the mixed rooms put them off. So that creates a self selecting group who are comfortable with them. Plus several pp have said they have staff around.

The majority of posters who have used changing villages for years don't seem to have any issues with naked men. What is going so wrong with the men of Bath? What is so different there that means these incidents occurred?

The seeing a man pee for example would never happen at any of the ones I use as they all have separate sex toilet 'blocks'

our local pool has always had a "changing village" it is all cubicles plus 3 family and 1 large disabled changing room; there is no open changing for anything schools swimming lessons etc there are male / female toilets; the only showers are open beside the pool, I have never seen anyone over the age of 2 naked and that was because he ran off

God, that's horrible. And weird! My local pool (East Renfrewshire) has a changing village and I have never, ever in 20 years seen anyone naked outside a cubicle except tiny children.

Just listened to the JV show on the iPlayer - you were terrific, Vix.

I agree with the other speaker that it would be great to de-sexualise human bodies. BUT that needs to be done with and by people and with their consent, not imposed on them.

And while there is still a deep (and I think getting worse) difference between the way our society looks at female bodies and male bodies, it is far from unreasonable that women and girls are given the respect of consent and control over the ways in which they reveal - or not - their bodies in public space.

We have had these changing villages in all local authority pools where I am for literally decades. There are rows of cubicles (like those in the pictures posted above), there are rows of family sized, a row of disabled, a family changing space (like a large room for larger groups). The showers are all open. I had never experienced anything different until I went to a hotel with my family as an adult. I would love to see the stats on indecent behaviour here. I personally prefer an village approach. I can take my boy and girl swimming without a male adult present. Everyone has the privacy they require.

Vix: you were fab on the JV show.

My local pool ( not in UK ) has three different words for woman and man. Very clearly marked separate changing facilities for men and woman, with separate changing rooms for children with a male person and children with a female person. Inside the separate changing areas there are small lockable cubicles but with gaps. I felt completely safe in that no one could ever claim to have made a mistake. Completely comfortable as there were only other women naked in showers and changing room.

Wow vix thank you so much for your segment today on the Vine show. I was appalled at 'liz' and her 'men like to see breasts therefore we shouldn't have an issue seeing their penises' stance!

I'm no prude, but I want control over who sees my body, and in what context. I want choice.

This is why we have sociologists.

Rather like Blair's relaxed licensing laws and the optimistic belief that bringing them in would of itself lead to the development of a European style cafe-culture.

Aside from the weather and all, it don't work like that.

In the Scandi countries there is a different attitude to nudity, but it is not 'relaxed' in the sense that nobody minds. It is relentlessly and strictly policed by citizens who call out aberrant behaviour individiually and collectively. Everybody knows the informal code and makes sure everybody sticks to it.

I’d think that a lot of women wouldn’t protest or ‘male a fuss’.

Make a fuss people!

Just read on Twitter that another complaint is winging its way to Bath Council.

Passing through the communal area, she witnessed a man wee-ing with the door open. She was already feeling spooked by the layout. She didn't complain, but since hearing about the attitude of "what's the fuss? it never happens", has decided to speak up.

I'd prefer it so much if someone just said "we think that the customs and practices in the UK are so stuffy, there's nothing wrong with nudity and in lots of places it's common for men and women to change along side each other, and that is how it should be here. Lots of the public agree with us, so that is how we have set up the facilities here." Then we could at least have an honest conversation about nudity, dignity and prudishness.

Not "oh no, there are separate facilities and everything is hunkydory what's the problem?"

Vix
There’s another thread
If that was you speaking on vine show. You were 💪💪💪💪💪

Many thanks all. Didn't get the opportunity to say much on Vine today as it was mainly about nudity in general. Still, Debz has spoken to The Times and Bath Echo has written a piece. Hopefully it will alert councils up and down the country that closing single sex facilities by stealth won't go unchallenged by women.

Vixfinn you did indeed do a terrific job in that interview yesterday. It'll be interesting to hear today's Jeremy Vine piece.

Vixfinn
Here's a big thank you from a local! Great job!

at 'there is no evidence' in the bbc report

Apart from the evidence of multiple eyewitnesses you mean?

My interview is at 04.32, spliced throughout and live at 1.43

You did a cracking job, @Vix. You covered all the bases - the right to separate facilities under the Equality Act, the fact that the onus ought not to be put on women to complain, the need for men to police their own behaviour, the poor design and layout requiring women and children to run the gauntlet of naked men, and so on.

Thank you. You, and Debz, did us a great service. We have to keep on challenging the people who blur our boundaries and threaten our safety and privacy. It is great to hear an articulate, clued-up, reasonable woman make a case that resonates with the public, too.

Sorry link.. www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p06vxwhf

Link to the early morning programme. It's all worth a listen also the John Darvall phone in which was on after. As a result of us all speaking up the Leisure Centre says it will now open the single sex facilities during the day...so we have a result. Very disappointed that both the B&NES Cllr and Leisure centre denied there is an issue or have received any complaints. My interview is at 04.32, spliced throughout and live at 1.43.