Trans Widows Escape Committee 2- The Trans Widows Strike Back..

Has anyone ever tried discreetly switching her phone onto 'record' when sensing he's about to indulge?

If you need evidence for family & friends (maybe even yourself when he's making you doubt everything) a recording can be more powerful than you trying to explain to a disbelieving audience.

Of course not if it puts you in danger.

Oh dear , unlike most of you I am prehistoric . Just managed to do a post opening up & sharing a bit . Then I lost it , I think . Already very low tonight , so almost last straw . But thank you Tinsel Angel for listening .

Sorry to intrude but I just wanted to say that when people are discussing the rights and wrongs of pronouns it is the stories on this thread that I hold in my mind. The use of she and her is not a kindness if it hurts women such as yourselves. I do not want to add further to the lies and gaslighting that you all have experienced. I think your stories would highlight this issue but I understand that your lives are not a political debate.

Abby time to take them down me thinks! I obviously do not have and issue with and totally accept the condition. My issue is with falsely entering into a marriage. I would love to know if there can be a legal argument. TinselAngel I want to thank you for inviting me to this thread. Without you I would still be in the same position.

Cadenita1, losing trust in yourself is one of the many effects of Gaslighting. I definitely felt like I was losing my mind. Then that became just another weapon in his arsonal to keep me quiet. He would tell me that no one would believe me if I told them what was going on. When I began to bulk, he set me up to family and friends as an unstable housewife on Zoloft. It worked for the most part.

Credibility* stupid auto correct lol.

And I think it's time our voices were raised, infact shouted, screamed! I think it's time that we were seen! Why are we the ones left to suffer in silence?

Can I ask a question? How many of us on here actually started to question their own sanity? The more of the truth we told, the more of a liar we were made feel? I know what it's like to have your credulity questioned over and over again. I know the feeling of needing validation, the need to prove myself not to be the person I've been made out to be. In my case after the discussion with his mum, I've realised the mask that he portrayed and I was living with is slipping. People will start to see the truth. I dont know and cant speak for anyone else but I think it's time to raise our heads above the parapet and let OUR truth be told for all to see. I want a book out with each one of our heart wrenching stories. We've all lived with the silent hurt, sometimes the shame and the feeling we have nowhere and sometimes no one to turn to and gone through, what's wrong with me, why have I failed, why was I not enough, did he see something in me that was so easily manipulated? I know I went into our marriage for all the right reasons but now I find myself asking did he ever love me? Was I not good enough? Did I not deserve more? Was I not worth more? Then I answered them with one very strong answer, at the root of the problem I WAS NOT TO BLAME! I ENTERED A MARRIAGE THAT WAS HANDICAPPED FROM THE BEGINNING. I WAS THE VICTIM AND I WANT MY POWER AND MY LIFE BACK!

I have told his family that I no longer have anything to do with him and they know Why!. But it's him presenting one minute Male with them, next visit, oh btw I'm femme.
I guess his family have to make up there own minds how much they deal with his narcissistic traits!

Thanks Social
Question- my bxxxtard stbxh is still presenting Male with a couple of local friends and in the company of his family, who now are wondering/enquiring why I have a PROBLEM with him? His family have been told by him that he is Trans but he is still living a double life.
Struggling to get my head around this?
Thanks to all you Great MNers for support

I have stumbled across this "light" , in what has become a very black tunnel . To read posts & realise that I am not mad or abnormal to feel the way I have , is beyond words . After nearly 40 years of lies & uncertainty , to the now that is so sad but at the same time so anger inducing . But at least , I have found a voice .

Agree. Start, good for you and just hang on in there. We can hear all your mixed emotions, and I take my hat off to you that you can see a better future, even though you are right in the middle of the losses and pain. One of the most helpful things for me about this thread is the range of experience, with people 'out the other side', those just finding out, and people like me moving through a couple of years on.
Debate, interesting question. Later-life transition/AGP certainly seems to relate to personality disorder - commonly it is assumed that trans people experience high levels of distress, self-harm, suicidal threats and behaviour because of the pressures of being trans. However, it may well be chicken and egg, the other way round, with some people with personality and identity/emotional/attachment difficulties being drawn to the idea of trans... professionals of course are not allowed to dare to suggest this, even if they are hugely experienced. A friend working in a GIC reports that the vast majority of people he works with seeking transition have pre-existing personality disorders, but this cannot be addressed or questioned. So it would make sense to me that it may also be addiction-like. The pleasure-reward business would entirely make sense, the preoccupation, the repetitive need to gratify the urge... but I've never seen any work on it (there is of course far too little work on the mental health aspects of this, apart from the simplistic assumption that if you are trans, it is tough going.... parents in trans-questioning groups like 4thWaveNow raise this commonly (ie their child already had mental health/ASD problems, then turned to trans as the answer, but professionals don't recognize that order of events).

Hi Tinsel Still finding my path forward alone.
Struggling some days. Rollercoaster of emotions.
Heartbroken really that they can destroy us like this.
The utter manipulation and boundary pushing.
I would recommend anyone to move on with their lives.
Easier out than In.
A lot of changes. About to lose family home, financially punished and the person you most want to talk to is the person causing all the upset!.
Lots of hugs and admiration for all you Great women

I don’t think what you say is harsh Tinsel. I am one that has chosen to stay. I don’t know how long for, or if it would be forever but I have made up my mind that one more lie will be the last one and my husband knows this. I have also decided that I leave the minute I am more unhappy with him than I would be without him and the minute he crosses one more boundary. At the moment I do still love him most of the time despite everything but I feel stronger having made this decision.
For me leaving would be a hard move, we have young dc, no family support nearby, I am a SAHM and most of all I couldn’t bear to be apart from my dc for a day or two a week or for Christmas and birthdays. I feel that I need to become financially independent and have a plan should I decide to leave. I am taking steps to become financially independent.
Despite choosing to stay for now, I have awful days and weeks where it makes me completely miserable. I would never have married my husband if I had known about it and I have a lot of respect for those of you that have left. It’s very comforting to hear your stories and it makes me feel less alone. I can’t tell anyone in RL so you are all I have and i’m very glad I found you. You reinforce my view that’s it’s ok to hate this and to refuse to tolerate it in any form.
T1me I agree that it’s like an addiction. My husband goes through phases of it and when he is in one of those phases he can’t think of anything else. He’s willing to risk everything to get his fix and has absolutely no regaifor anyone’s feelings other than his own.

Socialworker222, Absolutely agree. I think that the socialization that women go through contributes so much to muddy the situation. Sacrifice is admired. Putting the family before yourself. Try harder. Stand by your man. Don't rock the boat. And religion? Don't get me started!

In the world I left, everything was upside- down. Black was white. Men were women. Bad was good. Weakness was strength. Years after I left, i started reading the forums for women involved with these men, and I was just outraged at the advice given to partners. The more the women gave, the more they blindly trusted, the fewer questions they asked, the more they compromised...the greater the admiration and praise given to them. In the meantime, the advice to the men was to "start small", to minimize its importance, to gradually expose the wife to more and more...and more. And this behavior Was. Not. Sexual...heavens no! Always with an emphasis on "open and honest communication". It's almost as if the men were aware of the damage they were doing to their partners, the effect of confusion, anxiety, and isolation on the mind of their partners. They were grooming their partners to be their ideal spouse.

These forums were a tiny corner of the internet back in the day. They were all that were available to the women. Now, this thinking is mainstream, with counselors, families, friends all on-board. Women need to be able to talk about this.

Is it ok to add a post as a woman who hasn't experienced this?

Just to say I have a great friend who's a twenty-years-clean drugs and alcohol addict.

She works with addicts now to help them recover (desist?).

She says 'we are lying, deceiving manipulators who will do and say anything to get our next fix'.

Her words sound so similar to what you're going through.

I wonder if there have been any studies on similarities between addicts and AGP etc?

Do they get the same rush of anticipation and gratification as an addict craves?

My heart goes out to you all

There is such strength and light here and it shows how women can reach out to each other in love and support without judgement or pressure.

While I don't want to lay this on too thick, because the situations are very different, I have to say that I have been struck by seeing echoes of patterns and themes on this thread that many of us parents with trans identified children will recognise.

Love and support to you all.

By the way Tinsel, you don't sound harsh. The repetitive, identical stories on this thread suggest there is a grim reality to being in this situation, and we will support anyone going through this whatever decision they make, but I guess people happy to stay/accept don't use this thread as they can use the multitude of alternative support services for 'partners of trans people', which don't deal well with the unhappy, 'misgendering' amongst us who don't want to be re-educated or criticized, but supported in the reality of our experience and feelings.

Leaving or staying is a really difficult and individual decision. Women who are financially-dependent or have young children seem to be in a far worse position than I was. There were pros and cons to breaking up, but for me it was an overwhelming gut feeling that I could and would not tolerate his behaviour.
Cons of divorcing:

• financial (big-time) - I survived thanks to family helping me secure our home, and getting a full-time job which fitted round things
• loneliness - despite my current feelings about my ex, I miss him at times when the kids have problems, or do something great. Attending school events and parents' evenings alone and feeling I stick out like a sore thumb (particularly as I live somewhere where pretty much everyone knows my bizarre secret)
• time - I now carry responsibility entirely for my kids since they opted to stop all contact with him. I have to be there for them, do all the running-around
• practical - the rare things he actually did (he spent most of his time focussed on his own hobbies and interests, and towards the end spent hours online using a highly secretive search engine I found out about afterwards, presumably planning his new life) - computers, bikes, the crap I'm not good at
• so my social life has suffered as I am really worn out, and once I've done earning, and looking after kids, I have little energy left
• my health has both worsened and improved - I am tired and slept really badly for about two years and really neglected myself as I needed to prioritize my kids who had a very hard time in mental health terms. Pros:
• total freedom and independence
• massive sense of strength and being able to deal with anything, having got through this nightmare
• great relationship with my children - I'm sure we are closer because we went through this
• not having to feel anxious, bad, suspicious about my husband, his chronic unhappiness and restlessness, his remoteness and secrecy. That was really stressful and corrosive
• not having to feel angry that the other adult in the house wasn't pulling his weight - it's hard doing everything as a single parent, but doing everything when someone else is around and NOT HELPING is far worse!
• clarity, no grey areas, no 'trial periods' or negotiation. No boundaries to monitor and worry about - he started breaching agreements IMMEDIATELY (what are these women's pants in the washing?) so I know I would have been on alert all the time, and I'm entirely free from that
• sex/relationships: I'm far too tired/fat at present, but maybe one day I will be able to have a relationship with someone I fancy, who isn't dressed up in women's clothing, and focussed entirely on himself
• I was able to give a vital message to my kids (esp important for female children I think) that you don't have to put up with mistreatment, and can strike out alone and not be afraid. It took me about two days to work out I wanted to leave; for others it clearly takes months/years. If you do stay, I think you just need to be realistic about what's in store. No relationship is perfect, and people tolerate all sorts of stuff including these behaviours. If you can, and you weigh up that you need to stay, or wait longer to leave (in which case, plan a good escape particularly financially and bide your time - I considered this for a while but couldn't tolerate it), you need to get to a state of acceptance about the reality of your situation. It does appear that the vast majority of men doing this do escalate their behaviours, and can't be 'counselled' out of it, but if you can accept this, you would be like many people who stay in relationships for financial/practical reasons and do okay.