The 'c' word

Inoffensive female animals who are protecting their young

Is that what it is? I never realised. It's maternal behaviour?

I'm an inclusive feminist!

Unless you think cows, horses and dogs are inherently offensive?

No, I'm offended on behalf of the animals 😅 Inoffensive female animals who are protecting their young being held up as an example of nasty behaviour.

But if you actually think of the animals when someone is calling you those names, you wouldn't be insulted, presumably. Unless you think cows, horses and dogs are inherently offensive?

Likewise with bitch. It wouldn't occur to me, upon hearing that word, to think of a female dog.

I do :( Likewise 'mare' and 'cow'. Considering that the males of each species are much more aggressive, but for a man being called a stallion or a bull is a badge of honour, all about virility.

Of all the genitalia-connected insults, the one that I find most amusing (also learned on MN) is cock-lodger.

That's an interesting article. Thank you.

One of the examples given is in relation to a hysterical storm raised by parents querying why a porn actress is involved in a school reading programme.

jezebel.com/5858594/former-porn-star-sasha-grey-reads-to-kids-pearl-clutchers-require-smelling-salts

I'd never heard 'pearl clutching' on MN before, either - not that I frequent many boards here - but am familiar with it from political discussion sites, where men accuse others (who are usually men and usually in a position of greater privilege) of making an inordinate fuss about something they consider trivial, eg, legalising pot or extending Sunday opening hours.

But it seems I've only encountered a tiny part of it. This is an interesting article on its usage.
slate.com/human-interest/2012/01/pearl-clutching-how-the-phrase-became-a-feminist-blog-cliche.html

In my experience “pearl clutching” is one of those expressions people use when you ask them to think about the language they use and it’s impact on other people. Like “it’s political correctness gone mad” and “well if that’s all you’ve got to worry about......”

That doesn't consider the contradiction. Is it a really strong word to condemn a man or a fantastically powerful way to describe a vagina?

It clearly is a contradiction, but one that appears to happen, nonetheless. I don't personally use it in the anatomical sense. So maybe individuals come down on one side or the other.

But in the same way, if I do happen to call someone a dick, I'm absolutely not thinking of a penis. I know exactly what I mean, and it's not that.

The same with the occasional dickhead. I'm absolutely not imagining a penis and a head.

Likewise with bitch. It wouldn't occur to me, upon hearing that word, to think of a female dog. And I hate the word. Because it is used in a sexist way. It's largely directed at women, and often describes strong or aggressive behaviour, which would often be admired in a man. Similar to ball breaker.

When people are offended by the word cunt (and don't get me wrong, it's meant to be offensive), is it because they think the person using it is being sexist, based on its anatomical definition?

What happens if they know full well the person isn't sexist? Do they think they're just being ignorant?

I'd never heard the expression before joining MN, but I don't mind it. It brings to mind women who police other women's behaviour

I'd never heard it before. It brings to mind women who police other women's thoughts and opinions.

That doesn't consider the contradiction. Is it a really strong word to condemn a man or a fantastically powerful way to describe a vagina?

How do its supporters reconcile a fantastically powerful way to describe a vagina being used as one of the worst things one can call a man?

Oh and like Bertrand I said nothing about banning it.

Personally I think "pearl- clutching" is as much a "shut up woman" phrase as "terf"

I'd never heard the expression before joining MN, but I don't mind it. It brings to mind women who police other women's behaviour.

Presumably there it is used to describe men and as an insult? Not the super- duper most empowering word ever for a vagina? Does that contradiction never give pause for thought for its fans?

Yes, presumably it is, which is why I suggested that would-be banners made their objections known to precisely those people using it in a way they disapproved of. I doubt that the objection would be well received.

Can I suggest that would-be banners drop into those offending conversations and make their objections known?

Presumably there it is used to describe men and as an insult? Not the super- duper most empowering word ever for a vagina? Does that contradiction never give pause for thought for its fans?

Oh, and I noticed a 'pearl-clutching' over there too, but don't think the poster there was trying to shut down conversation, merely expressing their exasperation. So probably no need to report that

I haven't reported but I think it is a stupid, lazy, hackneyed expression. I judge anyone using it. The poster using it ( can't now recall if on the other thread or this one) was boasting about her extensive vocabulary. It surprised me she would have to resort to such a trite and over- used expression to make her point.

Personally I think "pearl- clutching" is as much a "shut up woman" phrase as "terf"

I was a bit puzzled by the rationale for this discussion so moseyed along to the other thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3466843-can-we-ban-the-c-word?pg=1
where the debate by different posters is very similar to this, with many disapproving but not wanting a ban, some using it gleefully, some against any ban on principle and so on - but what I hadn't realised is that You often see it on the relationships board, for example, when people are discussing someone who has ruined their life. Well I never.

Can I suggest that would-be banners drop into those offending conversations and make their objections known?
On second thoughts, perhaps not.

Oh, and I noticed a 'pearl-clutching' over there too, but don't think the poster there was trying to shut down conversation, merely expressing their exasperation. So probably no need to report that.

As for 'nigger', that's for black people alone to reclaim. It's long been pretty universally accepted as offensive and isn't tolerated, and I doubt it would ever be on here - people would object on an ad hoc basis even if it isn't banned. The history is quite different. It's edited out of Agatha Christie but not Mark Twain or Joseph Conrad and even then it's disputed.

Anyway, it's not 'men using the word' on Mumsnet that OP is complaining about, it's largely women.

“The only term I could see being banned by a newspaper is "nigger".”
Why is nigger worse than any of the others? Would you use it? And if you wouldn’t use it because you’re not black, are you OK with men using cunt?

How many of you here call people faggots, kikes, sluts, niggers, dykes, TERFs, etc

Is there a line between obscenities which are separate from their origins and those which are inextricably linked?

"Faggot" is fairly archaic and is being reclaimed by gay men. It's an insult but not an obscenity.

"Kike" is a religious slur, as is "goy". Again: insult, not obscenity.

"Slut" is an insult used against women who are seen to be sexually liberal. It's not a term I've used or seen used much here at MN. Insult; not obscenity.

I have seen / heard black people use the word "nigger" to / about each other. Not my dog; not my fight. This word would probably fall into the obscenity, rather than insult, territory.

"Terf" isn't an obscenity but is used as an insult / slur by TRAs and allies against those (mainly women) who do not follow transideology. Insult; not obscenity.

"Dyke" is a term I've heard used by and about lesbians. I've also heard "diesel dyke", but not for years. Insult; not obscenity.

The only term I could see being banned by a newspaper is "nigger". The others, meh. Unpleasant but nothing more.

I agree, Lydia. It seems to me that “it’s just a word” is only ever used about cunt. Nobody denies the weight of history behind nigger.
I don’t want cunt banned, by the way. I just want the misogyny behind it recognised.

How many of you here call people faggots, kikes, sluts, niggers, dykes, TERFs, etc? Is there a line between obscenities which are separate from their origins and those which are inextricably linked? What line do you draw between things which are fine to be used as insults and things which are not?

I recognize that these can sound like goady questions, but I am genuinely curious. I do not support banning words, but I certainly cannot agree that cunt is an empowering and feminist word.

Ye just a swear word, A strong 1. If I called some1 a fucking cunt they’d assume I was more pissed off with them than if I called them a fucking bastard

Badgers (or wombles) also aren't likely to object

Not really my point. I don't see why an animal should be appropriated as a swear word. Aside from the word not making any sense I don't see why a rather magnificent and potentially endangered species should be used as an insult for vile behaviour by a human.

They don't have to be associated with it to be a good sounding insult and something you can spit out when riled up. Badgers (or wombles) also aren't likely to object. Plus if that is my worst possible insult then it dilutes other people's attempts to use cunt as the worst possible word.

I'm from an Irish family. Swearing and and insults were just as likely to be a sign of affection as vehement hatred. I really don't see them as invested in the power of hatred in the same way you clearly do. Doesn't mean I am right or you are wrong- just shows that the word itself doesn't have a universal meaning which should be considered if it is up for being banned.

I don’t associate cunt with female genitalia

Clearly many posters do make that association. What does it mean to you then? Just a swear word with, literally, no meaning beyond being a swear word?