Mothers are being abused during childbirth. We need our own #MeToo

I used to be a nurse, and I do not u derstand what has gone so badly wrong with the training of midwives that they do not seem capable of seeing when a woman in their care actually needs nursing care.

A CS is major abdominal surgery. When I was working on surgical wards, no patient who had had major surgery would be expected to leap out of bed and not only care for all their own basic needs, but also care for a completely helpless, newborn baby!

Someone who has other medical conditions, or who has had a long, tiring labour or has torn or had an episiotomy and needed stitches, or who has had an epidural needs nursing care.

In my day (when I were a lass, and Flo Nightingale was walking the wards - or, in other words, the 1980s) midwives had to do the full 3 year general nurse training, and then 18 months specialist midwifery training on top, to qualify as a midwife - so they all spent time working on general medical and surgical wards, and knew about how to nurse medical and surgical patients.

Back then, every surgical patient was monitored post-op - once back from Recovery, they were put on regular observations of pulse, respiration and blood pressure - every 10 or 15 minutes at first (depending on how serious the op was) with the obs becoming less frequent as they went back to normal. Every patient, once they were awake, was given a post-op wash and put back into their own nightclothes. We made sure they started to drink as soon as they were allowed to, watched for nausea, and offered food when they were keeping tea/coffee down.

As far as I am concerned, this is the most basic post op care, and every woman should get this, following a CS, especially if it is done under a general anaesthetic.

Then there is wound care - that is basic nursing care, and it makes zero difference if the wound was a tear or episiotomy or was incurred in any other way - it still needs to be kept clean and monitored for any signs of infection. The fact that the patient also happens to be a new mother doesn’t make this unnecessary.

Basic nursing care - assessing physical and emotional needs of your patients, and providing the care that is necessary in a way that preserves their dignity and meets their needs.

Did anyone see this today? Similar complaints being taken up by campaign groups in Eastern Europe.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/02/did-not-cry-had-sex-shut-balkan-women-share-agonising-metoo/

Oh, so many bad memories, or rather the few memories I have are bad. I had my two babies back in the 1970s, so some 40 years ago. Pregnancy and labour were like being on a conveyor belt. No information given. The hospital had two consultants, both male, one very old-school which was the one I was allocated to, horrible man. Went into labour, went into hospital, got given a shave, an enema, drugs, then subsequently an episiotomy as was routine back then. Doped up to the eyeballs. The woman in the next bed in post-natal was a nurse, so she got the gen of the drugs routinely given: pethidine, morphine, and chloral. The after-care was for ten days but regimented – no picking up baby unless to feed/change nappy.

Second pregnancy was community based but I went overdue and so had to be referred back to a hospital consultant. Supposed to always be the same consultant as before but I put my foot down and got referred to the other consultant. Much better, but still little communication and no consent required.

Much later, once I got the internet, I discovered AIMS, an organisation to improve maternity care. Through them I learned that certainly back in the 1970s, the advice given by the Medical Defence Union* was that once a pregnant women had stepped over the threshold of the hospital she was deemed to have given implicit consent to any and all treatment determined by the physician. Which of course was why no-one at all ever said what they were doing and why.

*The Medical Defence Union provides indemnity insurance to doctors.

I would have hoped that things had changed significantly for the better in the last 40 years, but reading of some women’s experiences, it seems that some of those attitudes still exist. No doubt it would still suit some HCPs if women would just shut the fuck up and submit, rather than have ideas about autonomy.

My 2 births have caused me so many issues and trauma that I can't even write the details. One midwife told my 3 year old DD that 'mummy might die' when I was in labour with DS.

I am so traumatised I am terrified of health care professionals. I need to see the gp as I think I'm ill but I'm too scared to go.

I didn’t get any pain relief after my 1st CS.
I only realised I should have been given some after my 2nd CS.

An agency nurse told me to get out of bed to get a glass of water as she wouldn’t get it for me. I had had a CS less than 24hrs, I had pre-eclampsia, very very high blood pressure and a baby in special care and I was on the maternity ward. Cruel. I wish I had complained. I wanted too. But with a new baby I didn’t get round to it.

I had my episiotomy stitched up without any anaesthetic or analgesia - I’d had gas and air during the delivery so I cannot understand why the very senior midwife doing the suturing didn’t suggest using it during that.

”A young male doctor shoved his hand up my vagina, without consent, he had massive grin on his face, even the midwife looked disturbed. I looked at my DH thinking wtf just happened. I felt I was sexually assulted. I shudder thinking about even now, nearly 4 years later.”

@Pornstarlips - I think you are 100% correct in feeling you were sexually assaulted.

When I was a student nurse, a medical student friend told me about a consultant gynaecologist who made a practice of getting his medical students to do internal exams on the unconscious women on his operating table ‘for the practice’. The women were never asked for their consent, nor were they ever informed that this had happened. Oh, and it wouldn’t be one student, it would be several. Multiple assaults authorised by the consultant.

Over two labours my issues were:

Not being listened to by the midwife when I knew there was a problem with delivery.

Having no pain relief at the fancy new birthing centre.

Midwives repeatedly letting family members in to see me after I had specifically requested not to be disturbed.

Being transferred to a hospital with no pain relief in second stage. The midwife forgot my notes and chatted to the para on the way there. She didn't ask me once how I was feeling.

Not being covered whilst being transferred to the ambulance. I kept apologising to the para for 'being exposed'.

A male Dr. trying to turn my DD with no pain relief (the most excruciating pain I have endured above childbirth).

Not being believed that I had a bedsore from being sat up in the same position for a day. The bed controls had stopped working so I couldn't change the angle or move my body weight around to prevent the sore. I had a week of antibiotics to stop an infection when a fresh nurse on duty took a look at it.

A midwife laughing at me because I was scared to get up from the bed after recovering from a PP haemorrhage.

I could go on and on and on.

First time around I had a year of private therapy. It helped me to come to terms with the experience but I didn't help with intimacy issues I had with my husband afterwards.

Second time around I used the coping techniques gained from therapy but other issues still unresolved.

As others have posted, I felt abused and violated. I will never see the world in the same way.

My experience in Germany was completely different to many of these stories. The local hospital has properly equipped birthing rooms (birth pool, waterproof ctg, bouncy ball, double beds..). They also have trainee midwives on hand to do nice things like give you a sponge bath after a c section. Post-natally, you’re expected to stay in and the c-sectioners often have a single room while the rest are no more than 3 to a room. I was listened to and consent obtained for absolutely everything. The system isn’t perfect but I get the impression that it’s a lot better than the nhs.

For me it was multiple examinations and sweeps without my consent, which were just laughed off when I raised it to the doctor when I had my first. I was on the floor in so much pain, in the middle of an induction ward but the midwife refused to get down and examine me. Anyway doctor finally examined me and I gave birth in front of many other women and their visitors.

Not knowing any different I let it go but made sure I went to a different hospital for number 2.

There I had examinations etc but was informed every step of the way, asked if I was comfortable before continuing - a completely different experience.

My second experience should be the universal one, it wasn't in any quieter unit so disagree with the staffing point here - it was leadership and department approach to women that was key. I even spoke to the consultant afterwards and compared the two, she said she would never work in the first one as there were too many bad attitudes but the trust wouldn't be behind her sorting it out...

@NeverTwerkNaked

The sneering male midwife, I’m almost hoping it was the same one I had and there aren’t two of them. When I complained ( verbally) afterwards the female senior midwife told me he was their best midwife and that he’d just got a promotion. It was awful, like he was some god.

I know his name, it’s pretty distinctive, he’s risen to the top.

I didn’t even want a male midwife but I’m white and I lived in a highly Bengali area. The midwife said I’d have him as I wouldn’t mind and the other women wouldn’t be able to. I felt too silly to disagree.

I've had quite a lot of hospital stuff as a child and an adult and have to say that the way I was treated during pg / birth was really very different to how I was treated for everything else.

You are seen as "mum" (which I don't mind being called by the way!) rather than a person in your own right. I think subconsciously you are of less importance somehow. This follows on to post birth when all eyes are on the baby's health and very few on "mum".

We need to humanise women during reproductive stuff maybe, but sadly still society / media still see pg / post birth women as to be controlled, probably doing things wrong and need telling off, often making a fuss, there is a lot of talk about "wanting special treatment" and "women give birth every day what's the big deal" and I really think all in all pregnancy and motherhood still bring out a side helping of misogyny which is reflected in the way the NHS treats women at that time.

Yes a lot of what passes for routine in childbirth is sexual assault.

No means no in any context.

Another anaesthetic failure here - my experience of being pregnant and giving birth have altered how I feel about many things, including feminism and the medical profession.

I got severe PTSD after being violently assaulted during childbirth. They knew I didn't want an instrumental delivery, I wrote that in my birth plan. So after 2 hours of pushing where they didn't give me a single update on my progress, they all came in the room and did it without any discussion, warning or request for my consent. Episiotomy with no warning too.

I never wanted to kill myself but I wished for many many months that I hadn't survived. It would have been easier than reliving my nightmare day in day out.

I have survived and recovered for the most part. It took 17 sessions of EMDR though at NHS expense (and massive disruption to my life, let alone a huge bother for my family, me and my employer arranging childcare and attending appointments, and the first year of my child's life I feel like I wasn't there).

Don't get me started on the complaints process. Gaslighting service basically.

Another who this resonates with....Another case of stitching with no anaesthetic here, after a complicated birth anyway. The birth itself was absolutely nothing vs the stitching. When I had my 2nd, under a different hospital, they absolutely refused to believe I was in labour and wouldn't let me come in despite me telling them I was....I gave birth in space of about 2 mins at home on our floor before the paramedics could even arrive. I was very lucky, it was fine and actually a far better experience than the 1st in hospital, but I was so scared about the stitching because of my 1st I nearly passed out. Although the paramedic who did it was lovely and gave me gas and air this time :) There are a whole lot of areas for improvement in UK childbirth care.

Completely agree. My treatment while giving birth was horrendous. No one believed that my spinal block hadn’t worked until I kicked the surgeon in the face as they had started cutting and ignored my screams by telling me I was being a ‘wimp’. The last straw was when I passed out on the floor after they tried forcing me to stand up and walk to the toilet whilst having a PP hemmorage a few hours after a general anaesthetic section. I was kept in hospital for 10 days and on the tenth day my dr came up and spoke to me to ‘debrief and apologise’ which was clearly code for ‘please don’t sue me’

I had a battery of tests, a mastectomy, reconstruction and was treated for infection, all on the NHS. Also had both my DD in an NHS hospital, none of it is fancy but it worked for me. Under the US system I have had over $120,000 dollars worth of treatment. My friend died of skin cancer, her husband would have lost everyhing having her treated in some countries. If we want a better health service we will have to pay for it but Im not sure we can complain too hard.

My experience having my Son wasn’t the best. However the aftercare was by far the worst.

Under staffed, with a midwife in charge who all the staff hated and you could feel the atmosphere.

We were in for four days had a run in with a male doctor, his student asked him to check DS and he walked into the cubicle ‘you asked to see me?’ No I didn’t I don’t know why you are here.

Then followed a long conversation of oh your a anxious first time mum, and then talked to DH and not me.

Luckily it was just before visiting time and my DM turned up and I was in tears. He did apologise. But wouldn’t admit he was talking to my husband and not to me. I really felt like a second class citizen my view didn’t matter as I was female.

I’ve always said next time will be a home birth. But I’m not able too unfortunately

@Pandamonium

Not in the UK, but Ireland and the difference in treatment between a colposcopy and a colonoscopy was stark. Both on the public system. I nearly started a thread about it to see if anyone had similar experience.

Obviously I was brought back, I'm not typing from beyond the grave.

I had sepsis five days due to an infected surgical stitch. I died on the operating table, DS was too resuscitate.

I have never confronted my awful experience with my first ds. He was back to back, I had a failed epidural and I found the pain with just gas and air awful. He had to be born very quickly in the end as he stopped breathing. I had a horrendous male doctor, who was very difficult and lacked empathy. 24 hours after going home I haemorrhaged and was very very ill. He was the doctor on call, and said to me “oh yes you were the woman who could not cope with a bit of pain in labour “. I did not complain, I was in no state to, but how I regret it now.

As for political parties - as someone working in the NHS, absolutely there is a huge difference. Under a Labour government, services were vastly better funded. There really is no comparison. Under the present government, many services just don't exist at all, or not in any meaningful way. People who work in or commission NHS services will now go private for themselves and their own families. The NHS in many areas of medicine is becoming a threadbare safety net for the poor. In my own department, we used to be every bit as clinically good as the private sector, if not better. Our treatment and outcomes were world class, even if we didn't have plush carpets or flowers in reception.
Now, we are turning people away or putting on neverending waiting lists. We provide a few people with 'support' so there is a facade of a service still existing. We no longer transform lives.

This is why I am terrified of birth. Not the giving birth part, not the pain, but the medical staff.
I have spent a long time as an inpatient in a hospital which was 'failing', and it was terrifying. I've also nearly died due to negligence in a supposedly 'outstanding' hospital.

I will not be 'allowed' a home birth, as I'm very high risk. I might just do it anyway. I am much less scared of giving birth on my own than surrounded by medical staff. I am not sure what else I can do to stop medical staff violating me without consent.

Maternity services are comparatively well resourced, because birth cuts across socio-economic classes. Over decades, there have been significant improvements made, thanks to women campaigners with access to the resources needed to get their voices heard. In other parts of the NHS, things are much worse, especially where patients are less able to speak up.