Mothers are being abused during childbirth. We need our own #MeToo

PregnantSea
I agree.
Also agree with pps that it's very easy to minimise your own experience. Whenever anyone asks me about my birth experience I feel at pains to tell them how it was pretty good and how grateful I am for my relatively calm emcs but I barely ever talk about my experience of post natal care, the thought of which brings me out in a cold sweat! It's just not seen as being that important I think but it definitely contributed to my PND.

Oh, and I gave up breastfeeding too easily. After 4 days in hospital where I was there and trying! All the help I got was “nipple to nose”.

It took a dr to tell me to get some bloody milk into the baby and snuck me a bottle from the secret supply. I was discharged straight away when the midwifes saw. At 2am. With no milk at home. They wouldn’t give one small bottle to tide us over till the shops opened.

If someone had looked at my breadth they might have seen I had breast cancer. But no, it was my fault for not persevering. Didn’t get diagnosed for 9 months! When I showed the oncologists photos of me (breasts akimbo) on the post Labour ward-she could see enough marks that would have caused her concern.

What I'm going to say is going to be very unpopular with any midwives reading this but I don't care - women are being traumatised and put in danger so I think honesty here is really important:

A lot of midwives have a HUGE chip on their shoulder about doctors not knowing anything because they aren't usually in the room unless it's an emergency, and they think they know it all because they've delivered X amount of babies. They make decisions that they aren't qualified to make and allow emergency situations to go way too far before calling in the doctor. I've seen them standing there arguing with the consultant over the best course of action during a medical emergency whilst a woman is in labour. This happens a lot. The sheer stupidity and arrogance astounds me - an obs and gynae consultant has spent at least 6 years at medical school, followed by 2 years of hands on internship in a hospital, followed by a minimum of 2 years as a JHO/SHO in a hospital, followed by a minimum of 4 further years as a registrar who is essentially running the ward ALL OF WHICH has been focused on OBS and gynaecology, and all of these phases of career require you to pass very complex and difficult practical and theoretical medical exams (which have a low pass rate because they are so tough) in order to progress to the next stage. Midwives these days don't even have to have a basic nursing degree - you are now allowed to do a midwife course off the back of an irrelevant bachelor's degree. The fact that a midwife would presume that their medical knowledge is any way comparable to the consultants, let alone better, is absolutely ridiculous and is downright dangerous. It's irresponsible for a medical professional to put their arrogance ahead of the safety of women and babies during birth. Childbirth is not fun and games - it's only due to the advancements of modern medicine and the knowledge and experience of the doctors that it has become a safer experience. Prior to all this many women died a slow and painful death during childbirth, as did the babies.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone and I'm not tarring all midwives with the same brush - I know some of them are brilliant at their jobs and know when to step aside and let the doctors jump in, but unfortunately in my experience they seem to be the minority. I would like to see a shake up in the way that medical care is provided during birth, and for midwives to be held accountable when they've endangered patients by allowing an emergency situation to get worse because they were too arrogant and irresponsible to call the doctor in. I can't see it happening anytime soon though

I know hypnobirthing gets a bad rep on here but the course I took wasn’t anti-medical at all.

It had a lot of physiology in the course, explaining the process of a straightforward vaginal birth.

I think it’s true that it’s nigh on impossible to really understand / consent to interventions if you don’t understand the straightforward birth you are being compared against.

And yes to HCPs not informing people in a timely manner - I still remember overhearing Midwives discussing that baby wasn’t in an optimal position and they would give me X amount of time before calling the ward.

I had been labouring for 12 hours at that point WHY THE FUCK HADNT THEY TOLD ME

And I’m sure if that had needed to transfer me it would have then been rush rush drama drama ‘no time for consent’

Bollocks. We see you.

There is a mum on Woman’s Hour right now talking about the death of her son from sepsis. She has said she was dismissed as neurotic and a ‘first-time mum’ and not taken seriously when she kept saying he wasn’t right.

I bet no health professional has ever dismissed a ‘first-time dad’ as being neurotic.

Wow! I can totally relate to this. I hadn't really considered how the whole 'at least you got a healthy baby' mentality is so ingrained I've even been saying it to myself about my own poor experience with DD's birth!

Apart from a very few life or death in seconds scenarios, consent can be obtained - what’s needed is discussion beforehand so that women are aware of the intervention routes. Why isn’t the choice of intervention vs section discussed beforehand?

There’s a disgraceful lack of communication. My friend had a baby recently and has been left with permanent damage from hours of pushing, an episiotomy and forceps. She found out afterwards that they KNEW the baby was poorly positioned and the chances of natural birth were almost zero. But no one told her ahead of time. No one discussed what would likely happen. No one gave her the option of a section. Instead she had to endure days of pain, increased risk to the baby and permanent physical damage (they broke her pelvis and coccyx.)

But they didn’t accept that she was in pain after either - they didn’t pick up the two breaks for weeks, during which time she was unable to walk or sit, belittled and told she was making a fuss by staff, refused investigation by her GP until four months had passed as ‘things can be sore.’ She finally got an x ray after 16 weeks.

I know women who e been sewed up too tight ‘for their husbands.’ Women who’ve been left maimed for life, incontinent, traumatised, and women who frankly never want another HCP near them again.

It’s an absolute disgrace.

I had an awful time a few years ago having my first. Developed pnd which was partly a reaction to having stayed in postnatal ward for 5 days. It was truly horrific. Hardly any staff, it was 30'c outside and warmer inside with no fans, no air con, we were made to keep our curtains open for air flow (was none) so no privacy whilst having big difficulty bf. Had to leave babies in a room on their own to go and eat (so I didn't) and looking back my mental health was in a bad way and no-one noticed. I could go on and on about that stay. However really happily, my second visit to the same hospital 3 years later they had made some real improvements and I had a positive time overall. They allowed partners to stay now which helped me enormously, and I wouldn't mind guessing that it helps them because the partners can do a lot of the care that the staff would otherwise have to do (and can't because there aren't enough of them).

Realistically, though, if we went through all the risks and benefits of e.g. a ventouse while the baby's heartrate is at 80bpm, there's a greater chance of the baby ending up in NICU or with long-standing brain damage. So whether we proceed without consent, or we stop and get consent, we risk doing damage.

My baby's heartrate dropped when I was being induced in Canada - the maternity nurse immediately pressed the call button, put me on oxygen, and started to talk to me about what might happen next whilst doing everything. I refused a head clip and when the doctors came in we started immediately talking about emcs, whilst doing everything (we'd already had initial chats during induction etc. so everyone was aware of my wishes)

In the UK, the midwife just tried to bully me into being quiet on the bed (apart from the aforementioned good one), contrary to your emergency situation, an awful lot of time was spent with various medics, in various stages of dress (the dude who put a cannula in my hand - because it was oh so important even if not used and even though it was then replaced in the operating theatre anyway had his coat on hand had to put his carkeys down first) waffling on trying to get me to change my mind about various things I'd been very clear on - no sweeps, no induction, if anything's wrong, or it's taking too long, straight to cs (it was taking too long. I wasn't dilating, I was knackered, baby was starting to tire too).

It was a fucking shambles frankly.

Rita - yes - my first c-section was done by two, young Canadian women (and the traditional comedy anaesthetist) - they communicated before about what I wanted, what might happen, what would happen, I went to recovery for an hour whilst DP looked after the baby, and a recovery nurse (with an english accent - I don't know if it was on purpose, but it was lovely having a voice from home sat next to me as feeling came back), they checked me after, and I healed beautifully, everything where it should be (all a bit tight for a couple of weeks, but then back to complete normal).

My second EMCS in the UK, I didn't meet any of the operating staff before hand, none of them introduced themselves (despite me being fully mobile this time - having held off on epidural in favour of a quick spinal block for the surgery). The anaesthetist and some other dude spoke about their holiday plans throughout - it was like I wasn't even there. The only person who actually spoke to me was a nurse.

I healed fine (didn't feel as tight at all), but I can still feel bits pulling inside me (5 years later), I have a numb section of stomach, and massive overhang - due, I think, to a different style of stitching - I felt multiple layers dissolve the first time as I healed, but the second time everything just seemed to be left wobbling around (hard to describe).

And like everyone here, beyond the midwife removing my external stitches a couple of days later, no-one checked up on anything at all around my csection. Absolutely insane standard of care.

The PP who identified themself as a midwife expressed horror at all of these testimonies, but then went on to say that they haven’t got time for consent. Well, that’s ok then - it’s all in your best interests, you silly women. Too bad if it doesn’t turn out well for you.

God no, that's not what I meant at all! I'm sorry if it came across like that. What I said was "rightly or wrongly - a decision is made to save the life of a woman or baby, and every second counts so we don't use the time to explain things or get proper consent". Our current approach is obviously wrong, as this thread illustrates. Realistically, though, if we went through all the risks and benefits of e.g. a ventouse while the baby's heartrate is at 80bpm, there's a greater chance of the baby ending up in NICU or with long-standing brain damage. So whether we proceed without consent, or we stop and get consent, we risk doing damage. That doesn't mean it's ok for us to make the decision to risk damage to the mother instead of to the child. The solution, to me, seems to be to talk about it before it becomes time sensitive.
As mothers, do you feel like it's more appropriate to talk about possible emergencies in an antenatal class / appointment, or would that have made you more frightened of labour? (Not a rhetorical question; we're overhauling a few aspects of midwifery care at our hospital and perhaps an extra appointment to talk about these things would be something we could add in.)

Completely agree with the pain relief issue.

I was offered the same pain relief after my third section that DH was offered while waiting for an ingrown toenail to be removed.

The PP who identified themself as a midwife expressed horror at all of these testimonies, but then went on to say that they haven’t got time for consent. Well, that’s ok then - it’s all in your best interests, you silly women. Too bad if it doesn’t turn out well for you.
The scariest part of these stories is when midwives don’t believe women who say they are in labour/in pain/about to give birth in the next 60 seconds. What’s with the not believing people business? I am staggered by this.

It seems that there is a god complex going on.

Lots of excuses like we don't have time we are trying to save lives. Well a sweep isn't an urgent life saver. if youve got time to get implements you've got time to say what you are doing. There is no excuse to talk to husbands instead of the woman. Telling women that the pain relief has kicked in, woman will know that won't need to be told. Denying women CS especially when it is clearly in a woman best interest. Not giving anaesthetic when stitching.

From what I see there is not the wil of all the HCP to make things better. I think it goes further than just giving birth but all women's services. I remember a nurse wanted to examine me internally to see if I could withstand a procedure without anaesthetic (before being referred) when it is patient choice on how the procedure is performed. I did not consent and got to choose but it's clear I would've been bullied into something I didn't choose.

We need a campaign because it's clear the change isn't coming from within.

Indeed. We have it very wrong.
I was doing school run the day after I had my ds.

New my mil asked why (on day 4 after a c sec for twins which nearly killed me) her son was hoovering while I sat on the sofa!

I discharged early from hospital as I was getting zero sleep for many reasons and thought home would be better.

Well actually, I believe most subsistence type cultures have really strong traditions around the post partum period, whereby the mother is tended to, cared for, duties done by other women etc, for approx 3-4 months.

Of course women give birth in fields and carry on working. And loads of them fucking die from it too.

Christ we really do put up and shut up don't we!!
So many years of being told "women have babies in fields then carry on working what are you moaning about"

I DON'T LIVE IN A FIELD!!!

We should be getting better health care. We are producing the next generation ffs.

I hate to say it but if it were males that gave birth they would be treated like kings

Is there anything we can do?
Petition?
Review of practise?
Anything at all?

to everyone who posted here, to those who have been reading and didn't want to tell their story online and to any woman who has gone through this.

It's like being in a secret club until you start talking and suddenly every woman has a tale to tell.

My Uncle had a keyhole hernia op the same week I had dc1 by emcs after a long back to back labour, pushing and failed forceps.

They wouldn't let him go home without a responsible adult. He wasn't allowed to be on his own for 72 hours. He wasn't to do anything strenuous. He had two follow up appointments with his consultant in the weeks which followed.

Despite not having slept for 90 odd hours (75 hours of back to back labour which didn't get the memo about latent labour not hurting as much as the proper thing is rather hard to sleep through), hallucinated through an emergency section and not knowing which way was up, not only was I fit to look after myself but a newborn too.

The first time a Doctor looked at my scar was 3 years and 3 months later when they were about to cut it out to retrieve dc2.

I was given a physio leaflet however but by that stage my priority was killing myself because what was down in my notes as "baby blues" turned out to be post natal psychosis. I couldn't understand why they wanted me to visit a "doll" in NICU and was quite vocal about that. Luckily my husband had a very understanding employer because by the time I finally ended up in front of a psychiatrist ds was 7 weeks old. They diagnosed me with a variety of things beginning with P including ptsd from an old trauma which I'd relived on the operating table and told me I was very resilient. He's almost 4 and I'm still getting psychotherapy on the NHS to help me deal with all the issues his birth dragged up.

I don't cry in pain (too much "I'll give you something to cry about") so in both labours, both in my back I got the "you don't look like you are in labour" from midwives despite being over 5 with one and 4 with the other. If I say I'm in pain, I'm in pain...please don't roll your eyes at me.

Doctors who stroke hair...I'm a woman in labour, not a kitten. Keep your hands to yourself unless they are doing something you asked consent for first.

Oh and the hell of being the only mum without a baby on a busy post-natal ward. No wonder what was left of my sanity fell off a cliff.

Micke, almost nine years to the day since my second c-section, I still can't do sit-ups because my insides feel like they were put back wrong and when I bend over everything kind of scooches up and it's very uncomfortable.

Except I went back and refused to leave. I sat in the foyer until they agreed to admit me for an emergency c-section.

I did this. Despite it happening in my first birth (in Canada) too (where I consented to an induction.. which did nothing but give me painful contractions with no dilation). I'd been having frequent, regular, contractions for a week - I was exhausted. I'm convinced that had it not been my second child, and exactly like my first, I would have believed them, gone home, and it wouldn't have ended well.

Then at every step, I wouldn't have had any pain relief (because I wasn't 'in labour' unless DP had camped at the desk (all my energy was being spent just willing myself to get through it). Despite explicitly saying 'no sweeps' the consultant definitely did (he met my eyes after having a painful rummage and coming out with bloody fingers - we both knew what he'd just done). The midwife trying to make me stay still on my back so she could get a good reading (one good midwife who understood and worked with me to get it whilst sat on the ball), no-one showing me how to use those injections they give you post c-section (so I guessed.. but didn't like it, and didn't do it after the first one), arriving on the ward with no instruction as to what happens now, or how anything worked from food to toilets to emergencies or painrelief - groggy from the spinal block, what was going to happen, and having to try and get me bleeding and post-c-section up an 8 inch step and through a tiny sliding door, whilst carrying my catheter bag for a shower (and assuming it was OK to leave the baby - there weren't any nurses or room to bring the baby with me) and not discharging me, so I just picked up the baby and started towards the door (being chased by someone with a discharge leaflet that suggested I do situps post c-section!)

Canada is a single payer system, and it worked much better - everything went to pot there birth-wise, but I did feel listened to, treated as a human (by everyone but one nurse) vs. NHS where I felt the exact opposite (ignored and dehumanised by everyone but one midwife)

Forgot to add my point I had surgery on my knee a few years prior, they couldn’t do enough for me. Always kept on top of my pain and I had regular appointments. Childbirth should not be seen as some sort of ‘here’s your baby off you go’ it’s so wrong and the longlasting effects mentally and physically caused by the utter disregard for woman is real and should be talked about more.
But then it is one of many things in life, when you have a baby as soon as youre pregnant, you can become almost invisible as a person and are instead a mother.
This topic really upsets me sometimes sorry for going on!

Same here. You have major surgery and that’s it, midwife checked my stitches on day 10 and no more. It took 10 weeks of bleeding heavily enough PP to require another transfusion and my refusal to leave a&e for anyone to even agree to scan me. I was fobbed off with ‘its normal to be in pain and bleed heavy post section’ ‘it’s probably a period now, your first one can heavy’ etc by 2 GP’s, midwife and labour ward, turned out I had a number of large retained products including placental.