California's Women's March cancelled for fear of being "too white"

I may be wrong but I'm fairly sure white feminism isn't a creation of white men.

I don't think it's a creation of white men, any more than intersectionality is a creation of white men. I think a significant number of white men have however latched on to a fairly superficial understanding of the term because it's a way to tell women to be quiet which they can then frame as being progressive.

Theresa May?
I always wonder in these discussions whether there is an equivalent critique of anti-racism campaigning for not being inclusive enough of women...

I may be wrong but I'm fairly sure white feminism isn't a creation of white men. At least in the US, where I'm from originally, women of colour started black feminism in response to white feminism that wasn't addressing any of the issues that were relevant to black women. Black feminism as a thing existed even before I was born. It was even taught about at university as part of my politics course.

It is white feminists that then did all they could to shut and shout it down as being divisive. I used to think and do the same. However, after decades upon decades, we have nothing to show BAME women that we were right. All we have achieved ourselves is division by leaving a large group of disadvantaged women behind. We caused the problem, not white men. We caused the division by focusing only on what mattered to us, in a way that mattered only to us.

Recently a young Asian woman said this to me "throughout my career, it's men, including white men that have been kind to me and helped me make progress on my career, often though not always, white women have been unkind to me or tried to keep me down and I don't know why". In my mentoring experience this theme is something I hear often. We cannot ignore the experiences of BAME women.

That said, there are many, many white men and women who are working to address the injustices. Theresa May and the Guardian have been excellent at bringing this to the fore.

The term white feminism does not divide.

I would say it can be and is used to divide, although the concept itself is useful and meaningful all the same. Like intersectionality, which is a really valuable way to analyse how different axes of oppression work together and at the same time is a cudgel happily borrowed to silence women under the guise of not being inclusive enough, frequently by people who don't even understand what it means.

I find it very valuable to listen to what BAME women have to say about how feminism represents their concerns. Less valuable to listen to white men who think they've found a criticism-free approach to telling off women for talking by calling it "white feminism".

Saskia, being white in this country affords a great degree of privilege. To pretend otherwise is being dishonest.

If you think white working class women are disadvantaged, then what does that make BAME working class women.

Have you seen the recent reports that give the stark evidence that the pay gap for BAME women is massive with black women faring far worse. How come the "feminists" movement isn't highlighting this troubling disparity? No, it takes ethnic diversity groups to highlight this. The reason is white feminism was/is only ever concerned with the white pay gap, hiding behind averages when we all know the intersection between race and gender matters. Our excuse used to be "we should focus on one issue and put the impact of race to the side and that it would somehow resolve itself". Our argument amounted to one of "we only have time for the issues that affect us directly (us being white women) and that we would return to other issues at a later stage.

The term white feminism does not divide. It is white women that have not included BAME women. It also does not remove agency from BAME women. BAME women have had to push for their voices to be heard despite being told to hush by white feminists - read Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race by Reni Eddo-Lodge, and follow some of the issues articulated by Priyamvada Gopal.

BAME women have always had agency but like always have to fight their corner to be heard. It has never been made easy for them. They've always been told that their issues are secondary or that they can only find agency through others.

Race matter hugely.

We are adept at evading our responsibility by pointing fingers at some force or group that's trying to divide us. We blame BAME women for playing into the hands of this force or group. Somehow it seems impossible that we have to take some responsibility for the fact that BAME women do not generally attend or identify with our feminism. Fact is they don't - whether they are working class or middle class. They don't. The question is why. The answer is there in the evidence and in what they are saying. Listen to them instead of once again lecturing them that they don't know what they're talking about and that they must fall in line to stop division and gain their agency.

Read Reni Eddo-Lodge's book and follow the Guardian series. It will be an eye opener. Priyamvada Gopal at Cambridge does a lot to highlight these issues.

But white women on the whole haven't been the main beneficiaries. A small subset have - middle class, educated, already affluent. White working class women have not received the same benefits. They are still disadvantaged - look at reports about the groups most affected by austerity measures, working class women (of all ethnicities) feature heavily. Or look at media and the representation of white working class women as thick, slovenly, feckless, probably single parents to children with unknown fathers. Alternatively, they are depicted as drunken and violent, as illustrated by 'articles' packed with photos of people on nights out.

In addition, this 'white feminism' argument not only serves to divide (and conquer) all women, it also takes agency away from BAME women by suggesting they are not able to speak up for themselves and need white women to do it for them. It smacks of paternalism and colonialism.

*it will make the news for days on end

White feminism has not been used to belittle white women (certainly if any women feel belittle it would be white women, right). It's interesting how a blanket statement of how women feel is made when clearly the group in question is "white women". We often (maybe always) think that when white women speak about women, they speak about and for all women. We don't because we only selfishly think about our own issues.

White feminism is a fact. The evidence is there (as shown in the demographics of this women's march). The vast majority of feminists events are attended by nearly only white women.

Look at the #metoo movement. It's overwhelming white women being highlighted. I guess non-white women have never faced any such harassment? Their cases are never highlighted.

White feminism is a thing because women of other races clearly feel excluded. I think you'd be hard pressed to find women of other races feeling belittled by the term "white feminism". In fact they would welcome the phrase as it correctly describe the brand of feminism here. It's all about white women and their issues. This is borne out by the evidence because they have been the main beneficiaries. Look around you, women have made huge progress climbing ladders and breaking ceilings but look at the race of these women. White women failed to bring other women along so the top of organisations remain white. In the media white women's issues are highlighted and given loads of column inches. If a white girl or woman goes missing, it will make the need for days on end. Other girls women go missing and not a word. The way the media behaves, you'd think that only white girls or women ever go missing.

It's taken me a long time for my eyes to be opened to this. The Guardian is doing the series on race in Britain. It gave a lot of additional evidence on how skewed things are in our society. I actually found it distressing. My conscience was stricken.

I see Paul Elam is handing out day passes again.

“‘White feminism’ is used sneeringly to shut women up. All discussion of privilege has been rendered useless by the co-opting of it as an exercise to discover the most oppressed person in a situation and ignore everyone else.“

It’s just the logical conclusion to the belief that men are privileged and women are disadvantaged and that equality of outcome is a reasonable goal rather than just equality of opportunity. It’s certainly true that men tend to be (on average) more single minded and driven and end up at the top of companies than women do, but then again men are also more likely to have dangerous jobs and die at work. But once you push the narrative that women = oppressed and men = privileged, which modern feminism has done, and once this line of thinking, thinking about people as members of a group rather than them as individuals and their own individual circumstances, then don’t be surprised when the same logic is applied to other groups and characteristics. The thinking is exactly the same.

Some black women do have the ability to attend these events so why don’t they?

Possibly because they realise the Women's March is not an actual feminist event. It's a day out with silly hats that achieves precisely nothing, unless you count the participants having a nice day out and taking lots of selfies.

But Humboldt is a poor county and about two years the last practicing obstetrician-gynaecologist left the county. The women there have to drive over a hundred miles to access female health care. I doubt the Women’s March organisers are even aware of that.

This is very telling about their level of engagement with actual women and grassroots feminist movements.

Faithless, it’s really important, which is why I’m frustrated by the way ‘White feminist’ has been used to belittle and silence women instead of the concept of privilege being used productively to actually engage more women in feminism. It’s used as an insult across social media instead of provoking thoughtful discussion and productive action.

@CaptainBrickbeard is it though? Or is it highlighting the lack of diversity in the feminist movement? Even in this thread there are women stating that black women have no privilege, that’s why they don’t show up to these events and other unsaid things (there is some serious racist undertones). Some black women do have the ability to attend these events so why don’t they?

@weightsandmeasures I totally agree with you.

‘White feminism’ is used sneeringly to shut women up. All discussion of privilege has been rendered useless by the co-opting of it as an exercise to discover the most oppressed person in a situation and ignore everyone else.

I am fascinated by the idea that transwomen can teach us about hygiene and also that bitcoin and selfie taking can be categorised as life skills??! But mainly - why do we need teaching about hygiene? Where on earth does that come from??

“They were going to have a women's protest march in Ireland this year when Trump was to visit (he didn't in the end). There was talk of "pussy hats" being worn but they were deemed by our libfems to be "white colonial feminist" and rejected.” - hilarious, it’s like that old monty python comedy sketch...

Isn’t 21st century feminism (at least in this country anyway, where in law women and men do have exactly the same legal rights) essentially just another form of identity politics? Identity politics, like class based politics, always ends up this way. I have to agree with this vide, this is just the bed intersectional feminism made m.youtube.com/watch?v=g-a7UCyynDo

Stillathing you are right. I think acknowledging that the California match was mainly about white women is a good thing.

I've always been ashamed to see that in a place like London, that is very diverse, most if not all women's event are geared completely towards white women's issue. The feminism agenda has seen the sisters and mothers of white men move up the various ladders. Other women have been left behind.

Diversity has mainly been about white women. Most panels remain completely white - white men and white women.

Look around you at these women's events. Why are non-white women opting out? It's because they do not feel included.

... Oh and please don't do the usual thing of blaming them. It's always easy to say that they are the problem but they are not. These so-called feminist things are not inclusive. They address white women's issues and not issues affecting women more generally or different women.

Woman's March, Vancouver had Hayley Heartless, a self proclaimed 'transsexual dominatrix' lecture speak at their event.

Part of the speech was this -

When you welcome us into your spaces, and allow us to be open and honest, you'll find that we have so much knowledge to bring you, and not just about how to have amazing sex.

We can teach you life skills, like how to take amazing selfies, how to use bitcoin, how to build a following on social media.

We can teach you lessons about yourself, like how to practice excellent hygiene, how to do amazing contouring for low light venues, or how to practice radical self care.

We can also teach you valuable lessons about boundaries and consent, and how to quickly spot potentially harmful people.

Heartless has recently been one of the main TAs involved in banning/harassing feminists including Meghan Murphy. As well as a campaign against Vancouver Rape Relief.

mobile.twitter.com/4th_wavenow/status/1068182105400598528?lang=en

Woman's March is a joke and does not support women.

It makes me laugh when (white) libfems are shocked that their woke events aren't flocked to by women who aren't other White libfems.

As if a Hispanic or black woman struggling to access women's healthcare, finding work or bringing up a family on a low income is going to give a shiny shit about some of the nonsense that libfems campaign for.

They're too blind to see that having the time, money, access to information etc in order to worry about your gender identity is itself a privilege that racial minorities don't have.

White women are disempowered by this but the power lost isn't actually afforded to black women is it? Who wins when the women's march is cancelled?

Yup. Does this kind of thing ever happen in other movements? After 20+ years in the LGBT community, I can tell you that I've never heard of anything being cancelled because it was too male, despite women being massively under-represented (and actively marginalised).