Radio 4 - 'cis' people who are 'safe in the world'

What makes you 'safe in the world' as a woman?

Just reflecting on the language which reveals much about the life experience (or lack of) of someone saying there are no conflicts over the rights of women and the rights of trans people.

Just checked twitter - Jean said 8, so that’s good enough for me.

And in other ‘news’... What, eh, how? Whoa - can someone explain that one?

The cis word makes my blood boil every time I hear it. I'm going to write to the BBC/Radio 4 and tell them in no uncertain terms they should stop using it as it insults half their listeners (if they actually know what it means, Jane Garvey having done sterling work pointing out that many people don't know what it means).
I really really object to this word being inserted into common usage.

Radio 4 values what it thinks is fairness above common sense and reality. This is just the latest example of how wrong that attitude is.

(I'm sure I saw a stat on twitter of 8 in the uk over Christmas?

Yes, I believe so.

Travis also referred to Italian gender non-conforming people 'as late as 20th century' (Femonella?) were seen as 'heightened in their society' for their gender identity.

The idea that being transgender represents a heightened/superior state of existence was articulated by Della Aleksander in 1970's documentary:

OP Sunkisses wrote
"I did a search of Mumsnet and couldn't see any other posts about this extraordinary 1973 discussion show which was produced by transsexuals 45 years ago where they were given free-reign, free from editorial control. Four transsexuals are joined by a psychologist and an MP.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06c83f4/player

Where to start? Maybe with the show's producer and host, Della Aleksander, who is the most bizarre of all the participants. Della starts by claiming that a "chastened and wiser" Adolf Hitler and Queen Victoria have said, through a medium, that "there was a special role for me, in the reconstruction following a world wide collapse in 1978-79". Della also claims to have been sent from another world where the sexes don't exist and that transsexuals are the only model of a "higher race"! Della also claims to have founded the neo-Nazi sounding European National Movement in South Africa whilst serving in the Army there (I couldn't find any info on them, but they sound well dodgy to me).

Della also seems utterly confused, mis-using the terms 'bisexual' and 'intersex', and appearing to think these words mean transsexual, and that the appearance of nipples on a man means 'we are all transsexuals'. Della is, thankfully, corrected by the psychologist at 33.53 mins in who states that it is important to use the correct terminology, but Della wafts such trivialities away by saying "I don't want to get bogged down in medical questions". The MP, Leo Abse, argues against the 'trans umbrella' (before this term was invented by Stonewall etc) at 36 mins in.

There is clear evidence of autogynephilia (AGP - the sexual fetish of a man loving himself as a woman) at 33.23 when Della says the "sex act" is a "transsexual one", as "one attempts to become and absorb the beloved".

At 26 mins in one of the speakers, Rachel Bowen (the working class northern transsexual with dark hair), says that having a female birth certificate is a "status symbol". Another of the transsexuals, Laura Pralet, at 27 mins preposterously claims that "we are not a minority", and "I have never been a homosexual", even though Laura lives with and has married a man. Laura also says their husband is never happier when they are "in the kitchen", and at 31 mins in says they wanted to become a woman as "women have the best deal anyway".

It's absolutely fascinating and well worth a watch."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3327193-BBC-Open-Door-programme-45-years-ago-on-transsexuals-a-real-jaw-dropper

^Della Aleksander is described as being influential to Stephen Whittle when a schoolgirl: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Whittle^

And the man explaning about periods? That was comic gold.

How long have I been safe? That's a fucking relief to know... Just recently? I didn't feel very safe last year having a door shut on my head by a man. Last 10 years? Last 15? Lots of times I wasn't safe in them. From 7.30 this morning? Fantastic. I'll look forward to my new life of privilege and safety.

Load of rot wasn’t it. Why was the term ‘cis’ not challenged? Or the fact that the person said that as a boy they didn’t want to change in a room of - we boys. So a room of girls would have been okey dokey then?
Why no challenge? This person didn’t sound in the least but ‘special’ which I assume they believe. Attention seeking maybe.

Why was the whole stats on trans people being discriminated and attacked (stara from stonewall) not countered by the number of women murdered by men (I’m
sure I saw a stat on twitter of 8 in the uk over Christmas?

And as for I’m here in solidarity to make xx feel safe was enough to send my radio flying. Today’s editor needs to get her head out of her little bubble and ask why she is pandering? Did she even mention women’s rights? Not really.

Travis absolutely reads as an effeminate gay male. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. Travis can think and believe whatever they want about themselves, they cannot require that the rest of the world agree with them. No one gets to control what others think of them.

I heard this and actually thought the interviewer (think it was Martha Kearny?) did gently challenge the whole concept initially. She was initially asking ‘but wasn’t that just you rejecting gender stereotypes?’ but it was all just brushed aside - I got the impression that she was GC but just let them prattle on and reveal themselves and allow the listeners to judge for themselves. The claim that “cisgender people are safe”, especially in relation to sex-segregated spaces (why is that we keep males out of female spaces again, hmm?) is so patently ridiculous, in a short snippet interview like that it can be left to hang to be seen as it is. It’s not difficult to deconstruct, and it’s laughable in its naivety (being generous).

Interesting. Did Travis explore what caused the distress?

Travis believes that 'gender is given to us'

Said would find every reason not to go to PE as being part of boys' PE session, 'wasn't what they was'

Yes I heard this and was amazed there was no-one asking questions - was that supposed to be an interview? glad I don't pay the licence fee, BBC are so crap these days.

Travis described the acute distress felt doing all boy PE classes.

Interesting. Did Travis explore what caused the distress?

Travis reads as gay male, not trans. I hasten to add here that any homophobic abuse is in no way whatsoever Travis' fault - Travis should 100% be able to dress and act in whatever way they please in public. But for my money, it's plain old fashioned homophobia (and likely coming from men).

Travis described the acute distress felt doing all boy PE classes.

Travis claims that since 'the beginning of time' there have been non-binary people who are not male or female. Although Travis then talks of gender-non conforming people (?)

Travis says society causes the disproportionately high levels of mental health problems of people who are trans and mental health professionals 'don't understand us to help us'

Travis finds it 'so difficult to hear the debate' which includes women's reluctance to share changing space with males as this is 'tangential' to their existence.

Chidera Eggerue says of physical space discussion that 'cis gendered people' are 'already safe' in the world and that toilet discussions 'prioritise cis-gendered people'

She says that she has responsibility to protect, support & step in out of solidarity for Travis.

Actually, I have no doubt that Travis may feel unsafe in public quite often. I'll wheel it out again - I have encountered Travis IRL. And the way Travis dresses and behaves means that Travis is quite likely to attract homophobic abuse. Travis reads as gay male, not trans. I hasten to add here that any homophobic abuse is in no way whatsoever Travis' fault - Travis should 100% be able to dress and act in whatever way they please in public. But for my money, it's plain old fashioned homophobia (and likely coming from men).

I listened to it, without realising it was Travis. Talk about a sob story - oh, poor me, being restricted by society's gender expectations of me, people debating my existence. I can't believe it was Top Shop Travis talking.

DH came down and said "did you hear that interview just now? It was awful wasn't it?" So they're fooling no-one - but yes, it does feel like an attempted brainwashing of the nation via the BBC.

The guest editor is Chidera Eggerue.
She blogs: www.theslumflower.com

The non-binary narrative, ideology and demand for rights has considerable implications.

see current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3462206-dear-topshop

7.30

I need to listen to this segment; what tome was it on?

Well the point is made when his show is all about the outrage of someone throwing a burger at him.

Show is hilarious by the way.