Jordan B Peterson

But it's not a stretch to call him 'anti-feminist' really. At least anti what he appears to think of as feminism

It is frequently said on here - "do you support women having equal rights? - then you are a feminist, whether you call yourself one or not".

I can't imagine for one minute Peterson does not support equal rights so by the definition often used on here he would be, whether he likes it or not; particularly when adding his views on abortion and prostitution. I find the "he's not a feminist" a bit glib. Especially when there are plenty of lefty bros claiming to be feminists who have repellent views.

I assume he doesn't support quotas or all women short lists- neither do I.

It was, Jenny. He is strongly for freedom of speech, especially in universities. And I really admire him for that.

When a fellow academic (female) got into trouble by the trans lobby from their university, he supported her by also suing the university. Whatever you say about him that was a top thing to do.

A mixture of common sense, snake oil, and stereotypes presented as objective reality.

I think there is a lot of truth to that. I haven't watched huge amounts of his views but....

On the positives:

• He argues very well (even when wildly wrong).
• He seems strongly anti-violence and anti fascist.
• He makes a really good case for free speech and I have a lot of sympathy for his position on things like pronouns (despite coming from a place of disagreement).
• A lot of his points about the problems with identity politics and the perils of denying individual liberty are not wrong.

On the other hand:

• He has massive blind spots about the problems with 'leftist' issues in politics and seems pathologically incapable of being even handed.
• He is intellectually arrogant and allows no room to be wrong. On issues he doesn't understand (like climate change) this leads to childishly stupid conclusions.
• His (quite reasonable) defense of individual liberty leads him to ignore the effects of systemic disadvantage to an unreasonable degree. It's fine to argue that feminism or black lives matter has the wrong conclusions, but it's daft to argue that there are no equality issues to address.

I'm never quite sure whether Person is actually anti-feminist, or just not a feminist, or if we're all even using the same definition of feminism --- but he certainly says he is not feminist in interviews, and poo-poos any talk of the patriarchy.

I'm not a guardianista, so I care not what their opinion is, but his videos are often shared to me with the explicit strap line that he 'demolishes feminism' so I peg him in the 'anti-feminist' category precisely because that seems to be where he is happy to put himself.

That's fine on one level - everyone is entitled to their own view, and I would much rather someone be honest about those views than pretend to claim a label and undermine it at the same time.

But it's not a stretch to call him 'anti-feminist' really. At least anti what he appears to think of as feminism.

He mixes some insightful stuff with quite a lot of outright lies. I strongly advise you to check all of his "facts"

In what way is Peterson anti-feminist? "He's so anti-feminist" pops up regularly as a given

Does he oppose women being educated? Voting? Working? Being paid equally? I've never heard him say anything like that.

He is, as far as I can make out, not opposed to abortion on the basis of it being the lesser of 2 evils- which is hardly an outrageous stance and one that many would share.

He dislikes pornography.

The Guardian dismissing him as "right wing" is not worth giving the time of day to.

I'd go along with that FloralBunting. Have a look, there is stuff there worth thinking about, but there's less there than meets the eye.

I like what he has to say about free speech, and independent thought.

The content of his own views, beyond his strong advocacy for liberty, is largely mince, however and from what I can tell, a few tidy steps up from a lot of incelism.

I mean, yeah, whatever, his arguments for liberty are strong and worthy, but his 'anti-feminism' monologues aren't nearly as devastating as he and his followers appear to think, largely because he's bashing a huge corn dolly. He's only quite as effective as an orator about these issues because he has a driving manner of delivery which stops anyone getting a word in to counter his errors.

I watched a video of his where he 'destroyed' feminism, and all I saw was a man refusing to let a woman speak while he told her what was wrong with the imaginary notion he had invented and called 'Feminism'.

In short, not nearly as impressive beyond a ten second look.

He's v pro-men - his advice to men is great I think. I was thinking of getting his 12 rules book for my DS - but I'm always put off by his anti-feminism, and the way he's held up as an idol by the Incels. I'm not wanting my DS to go down that road...

The "intellectual" Jordan Peterson can be impressive - some of his lectures about totalitarianism or political history are v interesting.

He's very anti-feminist though. I don't think he's a raging misogynist in the way the MGTOWs/Incels are - but he's definitely no feminist. I am deeply uncomfortable with some of the things he's says about women. And lobsters. The lobsters thing makes him look a bit of a fool.

I'd love to know what "usurping" men actually involves?

He's made me think about various points. I agree or disagree.

It's helped me to recognise that we can't exist in our own silo or echo chamber.

Don't especially like him but for someone I mostly disagree with (liked the pronoun argument though) , he sets out his arguments in ways I understand but still disagree with, which is helpful to then be able to argue the toss with with someone else. So fully understanding the opposing view if that makes sense.

DH already does most of the cleaning so I'm good. Not sure I can be arsed to usurp or enslave random men.

www.theguardian.com/science/2018/feb/07/how-dangerous-is-jordan-b-peterson-the-rightwing-professor-who-hit-a-hornets-nest

My third resolution would be “get one of Jordan Peterson’s fans to summarise and defend his actual arguments rather than repeat endlessly that he’s been taken out of context and people need to watch 16 hours more YouTube videos to truly understand his genius”, but probably enslaving all the men in the world will be quicker.

Resolution 1: Usurp men.
Resolution 2: Enslave men.

Oh yeah, that sounds like an interesting 2019.

I think he is very good. He compses common sense arguments and sometimes this doesn’t sit well with some feminists and TRA’s.

I think he is interesting to listen to.

Resolution 1: Usurp men.
Resolution 2: Enslave men.
👍

He’s given me some excellent ideas for my New Year’s resolutions, I’ll say that for him.

All in all I prefer someone with whom I can fervently disagree in heated discussions to the type of people who try to ban wrongthink, #nodebate, gulags and all.

I agree with this. I have been known to have hours long arguments with conservatives about American interventionism, equal marriage rights, feminism, all sorts of things. Sometimes I 'won' and sometimes I didn't. But at least I was allowed to speak.

I don't agree with him on many points.

Wait until you reach Rule 5.
I got the audio book and found it waffly though tolerable until Rule 5.
He made some interesting points, but he is essentially very right wing.

I read his book. I like what he stands for. He encourages people to tap into their inner strength.