Jordan B Peterson

Peterson says I choose my words very very carefully
Peterson says that women are chaos
His book he has titled 12 rules .....an antidote to chaos
An antidote is something given to counteract a poison, something which we used to stop the effects of a bad thing

Women are bad and poisonous he wants to stop them

userschmoozer

That link nicely backs up the "Youtuber" thing.

I think he aims his books at people who don't really have the brain power to properly unpick his arguments....people who just swallow them whole because they like them

Men are order, women are chaos
This is just another version of men are from Mars women are from Venus

BWatch - that's a fair point.

I guess I probably meant in the big picture - in that he is a white, able bodied male in a Western country. So in the grand scheme of things. I wasn't suggesting that he was born with a silver spoon or anything.

Tessliketrees

I have no idea why you like Ben Shapiro so much but it comes across as really weird. Unless your his Mum or something you have no idea what he is like as a person so do get fucked implying he is morally superior to me by drawing a false equivalence

What on earth are you on about? I wasn't even the person who first referred to Shapiro on this thread. I have mentioned him twice. I haven't referred or replied to you at all. I was referring to Miffer's ridiculous "he's a cunt" attack - not you.

Who are you to tell a poster who has not even engaged with you to "get fucked"?

( oh and it is "unless you're his mum)

I don’t think he had an incredibly privileged upbringing. I know the murky backwater he comes from. That would have required considerable hard work and resilience to crawl out of. Canada is less class based however so hard work does go further than in the UK.

So he's good on the things that curtail his freedom, and doesn't recognise inequality. Unless it affects him.

''Jordan B. Peterson, notoriously disgruntled with the idea of equality of outcome, demands equality of outcome.''
twitter.com/debunkdenialism/status/1075093304834953219

ToeToToe

Indeed, but a stopped clock etc.

He is clearly an intelligent guy. The video I watched him in was a master class in straw mannery. He knew what he was doing, I don't believe "he doesn't get it".

I don't think he takes any responsibility for it

Not only that but he profits from it. It's part of the MO lately isn't it? Imply things rather than say them, cloak yourself in plausible deniability , wait for the other people to use the eye catching click bait talking about you "wrecking feminism", the write a self help book and profit.

I think he's v v good on

• freedom of speech, and the dangers of suppressing free speech and language.

• the dangers of extreme far right or far left politics /totalitarianism.

He's not good on feminism/structural inequality - he just doesn't get it, and nor do the privileged young men that idolise him.

No, Miffer. I think he just gets a bit annoyed when people point out that he is a poster boy for the alt-right/Incels - I don't think he takes any responsibility for it (ha!)

If the 12 rules are the best he can do after years in the field then I don't see how he can be regarded as any kind of guru or genius.

The thing is Tess - he didn't just leave college and write a self-help book. He worked for decades in clinical psychology - a reasonable basis for writing a self-help book - is my point

And my point is- so what? I did know that before you pointed out, I just don't see how it is relevant to what this thread is about other than he should probably know better.

ToeToToe

Interesting point. Does he bemoan those video titles? I honestly don't know but I bet he doesn't.

The thing is Tess - he didn't just leave college and write a self-help book. He worked for decades in clinical psychology - a reasonable basis for writing a self-help book - is my point.

Thinking about this, I think my biggest beef with him is his complete denial of structural inequality.

He is a incredibly privileged white male, who has clearly had an excellent education and career, a good marriage, but he falls into the trap of thinking everyone can do this if they "just pull their finger out and work hard, and read books, and take responsibility". It's not always as easy as that.

Saying that, I'm a bit confused as to how the MGTOWs and Incels who hold him as their idol don't take his actual advice! I wonder how many of them have read his book, or whether they've just watched the video clips captioned "Jordan Peterson destroys feminism" - and thought Yeah! Great guy! But don't look any further than that.

To call him "just a YouTuber" is v unfair

Yes, it is about as rational, convincing and well argued as consistently calling Ben Shapiro a "cunt" and thinking that's him sorted.

He is a grade A cunt. It's pathetic you keep defending him

I think Shapiro has some very interesting things to say on free speech and the intolerance and tyranny of the left. There are many things I don't agree with him on.

He is articulate and will listen to views he disagrees with. He won't reduce his response to the level of calling someone he disagrees with a "grade A cunt" as if that trumps everything.

He wrote a self help book (the subject of this thread) drawn from his years as a clinical psychologist - which spanned 20 years. He's also a lecturer - in clinical psychology. You may not agree with his conclusions (I don't, well not all of them) but the fact is he is fairly well qualified to write a self-help book. To call him "just a YouTuber" is v unfair.

To be fair, he's generally talking about his 20yrs in clinical practice - where he worked with a lot of disillusioned young men. His YT videos are drawn from his work as a psychologist, and from his lectures in psychology. He's not just some guy who makes YT videos

No. We are speaking about him in the context of an internet personality. Just because at some point he may have helped a insignificantly tiny amount of men in real life means fuck all in this context.

He is just some guy who makes Youtube videos now. His website is full of video content. He wrote a listicle self help book. We are only talking about him because of those things.

MargueritaPink

He is a grade A cunt. It's pathetic you keep defending him.

If you were a 18 year old boy in my kitchen I would be more willing to engage. As I am currently hanging around on a feminist message board I don't feel the need to.

Let me clarify, I care very little about Ben Shapiro. He's a cunt but largely an uninteresting one.

Shit, I didn't realise he was running education and training. I thought he was some bloke making videos on Youtube.

To be fair, he's generally talking about his 20yrs in clinical practice - where he worked with a lot of disillusioned young men. His YT videos are drawn from his work as a psychologist, and from his lectures in psychology. He's not just some guy who makes YT videos.

If we don't engage with the arguments, we get dismissed

I absolutely agree with this. I think dismissing these people as "misogynists" or "racists" just doesn't help

Does describing Shapiro as a "grade A cunt" help?