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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

We Can't Consent to This: all the "sex game gone wrong" defences

134 replies

WomanDaresTo · 24/12/2018 08:12

Hello - doing this under my semi-public NC.

On FWR we've been grimly collating the stories of women killed by men who claim they've died in a "sex game gone wrong". Given Natalie Connolly's killer's sentence has received rightful outrage, and given even the excellent Harriet Harman thinks this is an unusual defence, I thought it time to pull them together in one place:

www.wecantconsenttothis.uk

It's not a fun read, of course. I know it's not also complete - will keep updating but do of course let me know of other cases, and mistakes.

But perhaps we can help get to a place where women are not deemed to have consented to bodily harm, or to death.

Flowers and unmumsnetty Christmassy hugs to the families and friends of these women.

if anyone wants me I'll be having a humungous Gin

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WomanDaresTo · 14/01/2019 18:00

I've posted this on Natalie Connolly thread in petitions

An update - and not a cheering one. The attorney general has responded to requests to review the sentence of the killer of Natalie Connolly. He has declined.

We are confident that Harriet Harman will not let this lie - and we will continue to campaign on this until this is no longer the 'correct' approach by the legal system.

You can see the other women we've found on wecantconsenttothis.uk - we continue to hear more stories.

The letter from the AG is Harriet Herman's - you can see here tweet here:

mobile.twitter.com/HarrietHarman/status/1084861078599811073

We Can't Consent to This: all the "sex game gone wrong" defences
We Can't Consent to This: all the "sex game gone wrong" defences
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WomanDaresTo · 14/01/2019 17:56

Quentin we will keep an eye on that case, thank you.

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QuentinWinters · 11/01/2019 09:05

Not sure if this case should be added to the list
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jan/10/bristol-grime-artist-solo-45-andy-anokye-on-trial-for-22-rapes

RoseBromley · 01/01/2019 13:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

WomanDaresTo · 01/01/2019 12:54

Thank you Sonic! Apparently the young people are all on Insta but we might need an Appointed Social Media Controller [no pay] to deal with that too.

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SonicVersusGynaephobia · 01/01/2019 12:24

Was great to see a Twitter account appear this morning! Good work, Dares.

WomanDaresTo · 01/01/2019 11:45

Happy new year vipers!

We've so far got a retweet from Harriet Harman, and tweets from Harriet Wistrich and End Violence Against Women coalition and glosswitch and moar excellent women.

I am hangover free today so have set us up on twitter

BTW if anyone fancies digging into local news archives or otherwise getting involved in this, do pm me.

May 2019 be the year when this defence gets a lot less useful to violent men Flowers

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SonicVersusGynaephobia · 30/12/2018 22:18

It seems to me Broadhurst is having it both ways:

  • She was so drunk that my beating didn't kill her, the alcohol did. Therefore no murder.
  • She was sober enough to consent to the bottle being inserted. Therefore no GBH/assault by penetration.

Yes, this! It's such a contradiction. And to me, it just shows that people (judge/jury) were looking for a way to let him off rather than convict him by not addressing the glaring contradiction.

Italiangreyhound · 30/12/2018 21:29

fucking

Italiangreyhound · 30/12/2018 21:29

WeeBisom so true. So ducking wrong. Angry

WeeBisom · 30/12/2018 16:27

So the barrister blogger says it's 'utterly nonsense' that Broadhurst carried out a brutal attack on Nathalie. So how did she come to be so horribly injured? Well, the bruises were there because she asked for it (according to Broadhurst - she's dead, so can't comment). The broken eye socket was because she fell over (according to Broadhurst.) And the arterial bleeding was because he acquiesced to her demand to insert a bottle of cleaning product in her vagina and it hurt her 'by mistake'. It was all just one long series of unfortunate accidents or injuries caused with her consent. Er...is no one else just a tiny bit suspicious about this account? Especially seeing that it's given by the last person who saw her alive, who has a huge motivation to lie about what actually happened that night?

Some other messed up things on this blog:

  1. The bruises were not regarded as an intent to seriously cause her harm because she'd suffered similar injuries during consensual sex before.This blogger doesn't seem to realise that this is exactly one of the things we take issue with. She consented to being injured in the past, so she MUST have consented to being injured in this present case. If a woman has enjoyed BDSM activity in the past there is a presumption that injuries are inconsistent with an intent to kill.

  2. Something that's boggled my mind about this case is how inserting a bottle of cleaner into a woman's vagina is not regarded as reckless or highly likely to cause injury. In English law individuals cannot consent to actions that are likely to cause them serious harm. So why is this case different?

  3. The sentencing guidelines make it clear that beating a woman and inserting a bottle into her vagina isn't serious enough to bump his actions into a category B offence. I'm sorry, but if these actions aren't regarded as 'serious' then I don't know what is.

staydazzling · 30/12/2018 15:09

this is so important i hope the right people listen and never let it happen again, im often astonished at the judges how do they keep jobs with such attitudes and incompetency.

WomanDaresTo · 29/12/2018 01:12

Hi OP, I'm saddened if that is aimed at me, because I am most definitely not shouting that.

No - directed at the online legal opinionators who weigh in after these public cases of violence against women.

Marina Hyde put it best after the decision to parole John Worboys:

Across the airwaves and the internet since news of his release broke, a lot of chaps have taken the time to explain in small words why what has happened is perfectly reasonable. For my money, rather too many (though not all) of these teeter on the brink of finding many women’s reaction to the news “emotional”. Perhaps it takes a control to the experiment to remind them that it is possible to understand how a situation has been arrived at and still have rather strong feelings about it

But the thing is – and the Great Explainers must prepare to have their minds blown by this – it is possible that we also have a problem with all this. We understand it, and we also disagree with it. I know it’s mad, but we don’t feel the automatic need to reflexively rationalise the status quo as if it’s all predetermined science, and you might as well argue against gravity as disagree with it. We even wonder – imagine! – whether getting angry about things is a step towards getting them changed.

I'm really glad to have your contributions XX, because if we find (following the AG's review) that the law worked as it "should" in Natalie's case, then that's an even stronger reason to look at changing the law, and the CPS's approach to projections, and Sentencing guidelines, and training given to judges and....

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arranbubonicplague · 28/12/2018 20:14

Did the vaginal bleeding not contribute to her death?

It's plausible that it might have done had her death from intoxication not anticipated/pre-empted her death from shock/blood loss. In the latter case, had she died from the bleeding, the charges and consequences might have been very different.

I don't know but I think Natalie's lack of covering, her injuries, her intoxication, and lying on a floor might have made it very difficult to determine time of death beyond a range.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/12/2018 19:35

Plus why would she knowingly take excessive alcohol and drugs if she wanted to enjoy the sex?

Nothing adds up unless one understands perpetrator strategic sexualised violence - if that is considered it’s bloody obvious he spiked her drinks etc made sure she was unable to fight back and then tortured her and killed her - in revenge for finding out her communication with another guy.

That’s why the same laws as applied to male criminal violence are not fit for purpose for sexualised violence against women and kids where often it is deliberately carried out covertly without witnesses being present and too often male judges and jurors believe rape myths - the latest one being it was consensual rough sex gone wrong - very bloody convenient for the perpetrator

PygmyHippoBob · 28/12/2018 18:45

XXcstatic

As the blog you linked to explains, Natalie's "consent" was relevant to sentencing. It contributed to Broadhurst being given a lower bracket sentence.

What I have difficulty with is that Broadhurst's expensive defence expert said Natalie had the highest combination of alcohol and cocaine he'd ever seen. As a result of which the prosecution couldn't prove the injuries Broadhurst inflicted on Natalie caused her death. However, the judge assumed in Broadhurst's favour that she was not sufficiently intoxicated to be unable to consent to the bottle being inserted.

It seems to me Broadhurst is having it both ways:

  • She was so drunk that my beating didn't kill her, the alcohol did. Therefore no murder.
  • She was sober enough to consent to the bottle being inserted. Therefore no GBH/assault by penetration.
XXcstatic · 28/12/2018 18:05

The CPS couldn't prove that Broadhurst murdered Natalie because she died of alcohol/drug intoxication, not her sexual injuries. That's why I don't think her case is a good focus for a campaign against men using the 'sex game' defence - though I do take the OP's point about the media impact.

XXcstatic · 28/12/2018 17:58

there should be a change in the law to make the man culpable if he has reasonable belief the act could lead to serious injury or death

That's exactly what the law currently says.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 28/12/2018 17:52

Surely if it’s impossible to prove that Broadhurst murdered Natelie, given the injuries she sustained that obviously couldn’t be self inflicted nor consented to, plus his callous and remorseless behaviour as witnessed by the paramedics, then the law is an ass where sexualised criminal violence against women is concerned.

LadyLance · 28/12/2018 17:47

Thank you for sharing this, OP. I had no idea how widespread this was, and it's really good that you are bringing more awareness to this.

IMO, it shouldn't be a viable defense- there should be a change in the law to make the man culpable if he has reasonable belief the act could lead to serious injury or death.

XXcstatic · 28/12/2018 17:38

Did the vaginal bleeding not contribute to her death?

It's really unclear from the rambling sentencing remarks. However, the reports of the autopsy evidence are that the cause of death was alcohol intoxication, and that the head injuries may have contributed. As far as we can tell from what has been reported of the medical evidence, the vaginal injury does not seem to be been a contributory factor - although it's not surprising that people are confused about this, as the sentencing remarks seem contradictory on this point.

XXcstatic · 28/12/2018 17:32

It's just such a warped set of values where it seems he and his expensively purchased lawyers and "experts" (bleurgh) argued that this was consensual

Agree. We don't actually know whether this was argued in court, nor do we know why he was acquitted of GBH and sexual assault. But, like everyone else on here, I"m sure, I found many of the judge's sentencing remarks about Natalie's consent offensive and unnecessary - given that the sentence was for manslaughter by negligence, all the stuff about her consenting seems totally irrelevant and I understand why it has caused such concern.

XXcstatic · 28/12/2018 17:20

I'm not sure it is true if she had sufficient drugs or alcohol in her system to make consent problematic

That's why I added "or was incapable of consenting", IG. All the alleged sexual acts, as opposed to the killing, would be a crime if Natalie either did not give consent or was incapacitated, so incapable of giving consent.

The prosecution had to prove either that she did not consent or that she was incapacitated and unable to give valid consent at the time. The problem is that that is extremely difficult - they won't have had evidence of exactly when the drugs and alcohol were ingested; the speed of metabolism and excretion can be affected by many factors; and each individual responds to drugs & alcohol differently. It is incredibly hard to prove beyond reasonable doubt how intoxicated someone was several hours before an autopsy takes place.

feministfairy · 28/12/2018 17:20

Wasn't there actual discussion that she "consented" to the insertion of the carpet cleaner which resulted in the arterial bleeding? It's just such a warped set of values where it seems he and his expensively purchased lawyers and "experts" (bleurgh) argued that this was consensual?

Italiangreyhound · 28/12/2018 17:16

Did the vaginal bleeding not contribute to her death?

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