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Original poster

Third Spaces

91 replies

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 20/12/2018 11:43

As far as I can make out, third spaces would be a way to:

  • preserve sex segregated spaces for women who wanted to use them
  • allow trans people to use a mixed sex space (that could have individual cubicles) which would afford them privacy and also prevent them from being outed as it would be a mixed sex space rather than a trans space
  • prevent provision for people with disabilities to remain unimpinged.

Does this seem a suitable solution for loos/changing rooms?

I know there are wider issues but on this specific one, I think this would work for everyone and respects everyone's needs. Leaving aside those who will want to access women's spaces for validation, am I missing any legitimate concerns about third spaces?

OP posts:
Original poster
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 20/12/2018 12:53

So in an ideal situation there would be:

Women's loos/spaces - just women.
Men's loos/spaces - just me
Third spaces - trans people/men and women who want to use a mixed sex space. These would have cubicles to ensure privacy.

Everyone could have a suitable, private space and no one would be outed and

OP posts:
SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 20/12/2018 12:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 20/12/2018 12:41

But wouldn't your sister be able to use the women's bathrooms? She wouldn't need to use the third space (unless your sister is a trans woman?)

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 20/12/2018 12:40

I can see why your sister would not want all unisex but I don't understand why she thinks 3rd spaces would be a problem- she would be able to use the female- only space.

MaverickSnoopy · 20/12/2018 12:34

My sister who is pro self id and who was raped a few years ago says she is terrified of 3rd spaces. She says she is worried a man could push her into a cubicle and rape her without anyone knowing. Conversely I (who has also been raped) am terrified of the male sex in my female only space for the same reason. Not everyone is going to be happy with the outcome.

Neurotrash · 20/12/2018 12:31

To clarify, the risk of the cubicles being used for sex is why mixed spaces have in the past beeb designed with large gaps under the doors.

Certainly the gender neutral toilets at work are all floor to ceiling off a corridor. Fairly new building.,

Original poster
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 20/12/2018 12:29

I think it would be a good way forward and it's something I think people coming into this debate for the first time would also be behind as I can't see any legitimate objections to it. If they got pushback from TRAs, well, they could make their own minds up about what the motivation behind gaining entry to women's spaces is.

OP posts:
Neurotrash · 20/12/2018 12:27

The thing is, It has to be 3 spaces.

A friend was a victim of voyeurism at a public swimming pool with mixed changing spaces. Looked under the cubicle while she was changing. Was eventually caught and prosecuted as had done before. I commented to her mum, 'why the hell aren't they floor to ceiling?' and she said 'because there's a risk of people going in for quickies.' Which I honestly hadn't thought of. Friend can't swim there alone now.

Poise posted recently pics of the inclusive changing spaces in a shop with about a foot of space beneath the door.

WAGs are loosing their rights.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/12/2018 12:27

I agree that the only negative is cost

But that's obviously not a reason to NOT do it

Original poster
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 20/12/2018 12:22

Yes, I understand that the lack of validation conferred by third spaces is a problem for some people. I want to know if there are other objections as I'm happy to disregard validation-driven ones.

This is, in part, my preparation for some fun conversations at Christmas so I'd like to have fully thought of all angles!

OP posts:
dragongirlx · 20/12/2018 12:20

Its a great idea but CaptainKirksSpookyghost is right (great user name btw). The ones leading this movement don't want a third space they want into women's spaces, for validation, kicks etc.
A third space just wouldn't suit

Italiangreyhound · 20/12/2018 12:19

CaptainKirksSpookyghost I think a third space isn't wanted by some but it is by others.

My child's school has individual toilets opening onto a corridor. I think these spaces are going to become more common. I'd like to see these spaces come into existence but without losing single sex provision.

Neurotrash · 20/12/2018 12:19

Of course it's not wanted, they want to continue the binary. On their terms.

I talked through all of this with a friend who has been oblivious but us the most sensible and 'right on' person I know. Her daughter (I now know) is very gender non conforming (didn't know that's what it was called a few years ago!) and most of her friends at school were lesbians (we're in our 40s)

Her logical conclusion, weighing up everything, was 3rd spaces please. Now.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 20/12/2018 12:13

The problem is a Third space isn't wanted.

Italiangreyhound · 20/12/2018 12:11

Third spaces would also help all the people who identify as non-binary, whether they are male or female in terms of sex they don't want to use the facilities for that sex or for the other.

Trans men may feel uncomfortable in the female toilets and also unsafe in the male ones, so again a third space would be good for them.

There are no arguments I can see against third spaces except cost. This is assuming that we do not lose male and female facilities. I don't want to lose female and male only faculties, I want additional facilities for anyone.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/12/2018 11:46

I cant see the problem pain but every day is a school day on MN so im willing to learm