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Original poster

Can I ask you to talk to your family about this over Christmas?

31 replies

Gentlygently · 20/12/2018 08:27

Petition to stop men being allowed in women’s prisons.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

It needs another 2300 signatures to get a government response.

OP posts:
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Original poster
Gentlygently · 29/12/2018 10:00

Another bump.

OP posts:
Macareaux · 26/12/2018 08:32

Prisons should be segregated by sex.

Prisons already have wings for vulnerable prisoners and should cater for those with particular vulnerabilities including SRS within the appropriate sex segregated estate.

We need to hold the line on this. Making exceptions for some men is what got us into this whole fucking mess in the first place.

Original poster
Gentlygently · 26/12/2018 07:40

Bump for this. Can we get it to 8000 over the next few days?

OP posts:
Original poster
Gentlygently · 21/12/2018 11:26

Fair play for Women have some good links on the facts on women, prisons and transgender prisoners.

What brought it home to me is how small the female prison population is, and therefore that a small number of men identifying as women (often sexual attackers) makes a huge difference to the number of violent individuals in a women's prison.

OP posts:
qumquat · 21/12/2018 10:35

People I've talked to about this seem to think women's prisons are a hot bed of violence and sexual violence anyway so they couldn't get themselves worked up about it. I think it all comes back to the taboo of naming male violence. These are intelligent people who genuinely believe (incarcerated) women are just as violent as men. I tried my best but they weren't getting it.

CigarsofthePharoahs · 20/12/2018 21:11

Signed!

Thingybob · 20/12/2018 16:29

It's not actually the job of TRas to solve this either to be really fair though

I don't understand that comment, surely TRAs should be advocating and campaigning for the safety of all members of the community they represent?

I've never been to prison and am not likely to go, but I will support the rights and safety of other members of my group (women) who are in prison.

Doilooklikeatourist · 20/12/2018 15:18

Signed

Aristaeus76 · 20/12/2018 15:14

Self ID men should not be put into women's prisons, but I'm not going to talk to my family about it over Christmas, Jeez.

userschmoozer · 20/12/2018 14:51

The law says no one has to have any surgery, so that's a red herring.

VeggyGravy · 20/12/2018 14:49

A man who "who looks female and has had SRS and fake breasts" isn't women's problem to solve.

No one has implied that it is. We really need a trans prison for those situations but tras don't actually care enough about trans people to fight for those. It's about validation.

Sex segregation is crucial for women's safety and dignity.

No arguments here.

It's not actually the job of TRas to solve this either to be really fair though. The government is aware it has a problem with male rape in prisons. It also knows it is paying for SRS for MTF people who sometimes end up in prisons. There doesn't need to be a think tank they know exactly what needs to happen. They need to deal with all male rape as well but TW would be particularly vulnerable.

SnuggyBuggy · 20/12/2018 14:47

I figured mixed prisons were abolished for a reason and I don't see how a man identifying as a woman is any different from a man that doesn't

Original poster
Gentlygently · 20/12/2018 14:45

My view is that men (as a class) are a danger to women (as a class). Therefore the starting assumption should be that the addition of any male to a women's prison increases the risk to women.

Is the increased safety of that man worth the decreased safety to many women?

OP posts:
gendercritter · 20/12/2018 12:53

Signed and will share it with others, thanks

Squigglicious · 20/12/2018 12:50

They’ve got specialist wings in mens prisons already. They know who to keep away from the general populace for safety.

SnuggyBuggy · 20/12/2018 11:50

Probably a need a separate specialist wing in some men's prisons

Original poster
Gentlygently · 20/12/2018 11:40

Well I find it easier to bring up this conversation after spending some time with a person, and with my extended family I do that over Christmas. Something I can bring up if I have 3-4 hours to see them, that I might not if I just had a half hour chat.

OP posts:
jessstan2 · 20/12/2018 11:26

Why over Christmas?

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 20/12/2018 11:23

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Gentlygently · 20/12/2018 10:44

In relation to the surgery point, all the petition asks for is that the rules (which currently let fully intact males who are in prison for sex offences get placed in women's prisons) are reviewed.

It is possible of course that some men would be let in after the review. But clearly there is a need for a review.

OP posts:
VeggyGravy · 20/12/2018 10:36

Humans can't change sex, even with surgery. Therefore prisoners should go into the correct estate for their sex.

No, not simple at all. They cannot change sex but a person who looks female and has had SRS and fake breasts would spend the rest of their time being sexually abused. So no, they really don't belong with the men.

There is absolutely no reason to not have a third option.

CaptainWarbeck · 20/12/2018 10:32

Signed

WeRiseUp · 20/12/2018 10:31

What if they've had surgery? Which prison should they go to?

Prisons should be sex segregated.

Humans can't change sex, even with surgery.

Therefore prisoners should go into the correct estate for their sex.

Simple.

VeggyGravy · 20/12/2018 10:31

What if they've had surgery? Which prison should they go to?

We really need a trans prison for those situations but tras don't actually care enough about trans people to fight for those. It's about validation.

I really don't want a transwoman who has had surgery is doing time for a non violent act in a men's prison. I would expect that they would be a huge target for sexual abuse.

Equally that men are pigs is not the problem of women and we shouldn't take on the risk ourselves.

Luvey · 20/12/2018 10:28

What if they've had surgery? Which prison should they go to?