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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Recording of Mermaids training

334 replies

Imherefornow · 18/12/2018 15:40

twitter.com/MichaelConroy68/status/1074723989308801026?s=19

Apologies if this has already been posted. Did a quick search and didn't find anything.

Michael Conroy attended and recorded a mermaids training session. It's hair raising listening.

I believe that someone is working on transcribing this, which will hopefully make it easier to analyse. But wanted to post it to make sure it hadn't been missed.

OP posts:
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R0wantrees · 19/12/2018 14:02

Why is it Barrie and GI Joe? Why not Ken? What wrong with Ken?

Barbie not Barrie obvs - though auto correct is not happy.

I think autocorrect is onto something more profound.
The Mermaids 'jelly baby sex-stereotypes continuum' is only about superficial presentation eg the far extreme (called Barbie) is described by the trainer as someone liking pink, sparkles, long blonde hair etc.

So why shouldn't a person who prefers such things be a 'Barrie' and be male?

starcrossedseahorse · 19/12/2018 13:38

Am still laughing at 'Barrie' as a typo for Barbie!

I have to get my kicks where I can as this shit is really starting to affect me badly.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 19/12/2018 12:53

There was a bit where GC guy was challenging the trainer over the bit where they were supposed to plot themselves on the jelly baby chart, IIRC he pointed out that what it means to be a man is culturally determined so what point of reference should he use? And others piped in that it's all highly individual and personal (or words to that effect)

Structure and agency. That is what strikes me about this. The left have completely bought the right-wing neoliberal idea that it is all about the individual. This is Thatcherism and Trumpism. It's not left-wing thinking which recognises social structures.

GodThisIsShit · 19/12/2018 12:53

Thank you to those doing the transcribing. It will be very useful to see this in black and white.

OrchidInTheSun · 19/12/2018 12:24

Pythagonal :) Honestly, it's easier to listen to if you're transcribing it because I don't really listen to what is said. It's much worse reading it back!

Melamin · 19/12/2018 12:12

Yes it needs sections and headers. You would get lost in it otherwise.

Pythagonal · 19/12/2018 12:12

Thank you for your sterling work, Orchid. I couldn't even bring myself to listen to 10 minutes of it.

OrchidInTheSun · 19/12/2018 12:09

I've transcribed all of the second half and Pencils is doing the first bit. Maybe I should put it into sections with headers. It's shocking stuff isn't it? Such a load of waffle and misrepresentation. And any challenge shut down.

ifonlyus · 19/12/2018 11:08

Just listened. Oh my god! I would struggle to sit through that. It's worrying that more people in the room aren't asking questions or making comments. Shows how they manage to befuddle people with their faux science. It's totally disingenuous.

I'm having flashbacks to being in an awful training course where the woman used the same way of talking and ended her sentences with a 'yeah?' to cajole the room into believing we all were in agreement and affirmed her points. I'm going to have to think what that course was for now! I'm sure it was for something bullshitty (but not as dangerous)

HerFemaleness · 19/12/2018 08:56

The thing is in training sessions that many people will conform in the group - it doesn't mean that they go along with it.

A couple of people clearly had drunk the kool aid. There was a bit where GC guy was challenging the trainer over the bit where they were supposed to plot themselves on the jelly baby chart, IIRC he pointed out that what it means to be a man is culturally determined so what point of reference should he use? And others piped in that it's all highly individual and personal (or words to that effect).

How do you identify into a category when there are no determining features for being in that category?

ViragoKnows · 19/12/2018 08:42

I hope Michael was attending as an undercover feelance journalist and manages to sell the story to a broadsheet

swerv · 19/12/2018 08:15

The thing is in training sessions that many people will conform in the group - it doesn't mean that they go along with it.

I think the trainer made it clear she would not welcome objections so that would deter others from critical questioning.

It is dangerous that this shit could be peddled to children.

CallingDannyBoy · 19/12/2018 07:57

The guy does a really good job of questioning the training only to be told to take it down a level and it would be dealt with later on. Lots of equivalence in there and it is so illogical with lots of holes in it - just on the jelly bit at the moment. The trainer can’t answer his questions. I wonder what the other people in the room thought it sounds like a couple were going along with it. The questioning approach is fab though.

cantgetridofthekids · 19/12/2018 07:22

As someone transsexual since childhood who has experienced many issues growing up I was very interested to listen to this.

The first part I felt was valid in that not everyone nearly fits into stereotypically male or female. It was actually a bloody good argument over why we SHOULDNT label children as transgender and the importance of removing gender stereotypes.

As the training progressed their conclusions just became ridiculous and confusing. By all means have an organisation of qualified professionals to support dysphoric children but to actively go out and train people to find problems out of nothingness is disgusting.

The erase of transexualism and dysphoria as medical conditions was equally concerning.
Imagine if I said that clinical depression was an outdated term and from now on you just had to use the term "sad"....and anyone that ever felt even slightly sad came under the label. Instead of the x thousand people diagnosed with depression we now have x million people under the new sad umbrella. What happens to those with genuine clinical depression ?

You don't have to erase Gender Dysphoria, Gender Identity Disorder and Transexualism when all you are trying to say is that not everyone conforms to gender stereotypes.

Their veiled criticism of CAMHS was greatly concerning. If a child does experience issues with gender identity what you don't do is immediately go to an organisation that slaps a TG label on and fails to identify and address other comorbidities. Trauma, Abuse, BPD are all factors. Most worrying of all is that certain indicators for child sexual abuse are now being swallowed up and dismissed by a TG label.

Never in a million years would I give Mermaids 1p for this nonsense.

swerv · 19/12/2018 06:24

Also the trainer telling when challenged on the appalling stereotypes that he needs "to take a step down academically".

This is the whole gist, this trainer is asking people to take a massive gullible step and swallow up any critical thinking.

No room for science, facts and proper research.

Damaging for children. Safeguarding thrown out the window.

I can't believe this is peddled to police and primary aged children. AngryAngry

swerv · 19/12/2018 05:09

Where would barbie robotics engineer be on the mermaid gender spectrum?

https://barbie.mattel.com/shop/en-us/ba/career-dolls/barbie-robotics-engineer-doll-frm09

ConfusedConfused

Badgerthebodger · 19/12/2018 00:21

Fuck this is just insane. How and why are they allowed anywhere near other people’s children with this utter nonsense?

pombear · 18/12/2018 23:59

OK, after minimal googling I now understand more about Jan the trainer now.

And can understand her drive to 'educate the world' to her world view, negate safeguarding, shut down questions from the audience, and convince us all that humans are like clownfish and can change sex.

Whilst I'm sure Jan is a supportive and caring parent, it seems Jan has an experience somewhat like Susie. And Jan needs all of us to affirm that her parenting decisions are OK. No matter what the implications for other children.

The muddled, wandering and lecturing-style of the training session makes much more sense with that context as to who is delivering it and potentially why. Sad But that doesn't give it legitimacy.

Melamin · 18/12/2018 23:37

And the makers of Barbie should be suing for misappropriation of their brand. Yes, that's odd. They really didn't like that song,.... quite a few years ago now....Hmm

Melamin · 18/12/2018 23:35

What wrong with Ken? Is Ken not number 6, with the sticky-out arms?

Needmoresleep · 18/12/2018 23:34

Barbie not Barrie obvs - though auto correct is not happy.

Needmoresleep · 18/12/2018 23:33

Why is it Barrie and GI Joe? Why not Ken? What wrong with Ken?

adultFemaleElf · 18/12/2018 23:28

This is unbelievable claptrap.

And the makers of Barbie should be suing for misappropriation of their brand.

newtlover · 18/12/2018 23:22

looking forward to the transcript

HandsOffMyRights · 18/12/2018 23:22

Big chunks at the end of this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3453738-Mermaids-review

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