A Trans Woman Was Asked To Leave The Women's Changing Room At A PureGym

And because of the antics of TRAs my views over the past couple of years have hardened considerably.

Yes. That is my view, as well.

I do sympathise with genuinely dysphoric people but I think having any loopholes now would be exploited so going back to 2004 wouldn’t solve anything.

The loopholes already are there and are being exploited. A number of posts on here talk about "we can't let...".....too late! Women and TS people do have common cause over this the problem now arises when women are now turning round to genuine TS people and saying "sod UK law, you can *&^% off and all".

The biggest loophole by far though is a combination of three things...
Firstly the EA does specifically refer to TS people who seek transition. However it grant's the protected characteristic even before any transition has commenced. I strongly disagree and my personal view is that it should only apply once the first stage of transition begins ie hormonal therapy.
Secondly the ability to change gender markers on some things is far too easy. My driving license was changed with no need for any supporting medical evidence. My passport fortunately did require doctors letters from gender specialists.
Thirdly noone is allowed to ask a TG person to prove their identity. That is ridiculous. People are asked for it all the time. My passport would at least tell you I was diagnosed and medicalised but you aren't allowed to ask me to produce it!

Kay Don’t talk rot, it is nothing like that situation with Big and Little L. No one is hunting you out on threads to give you abuse, you seem perfectly capable of turning up on threads yourself. And when you don’t get an answer you like, you change the topic and come up with some obfuscated, wordy wall of text which is generally meaningless and yet again irrelevant. You don’t seem to be capable of constructing logical, well reasoned responses to any arguments on here.

And stop with the poor me, no one likes us. It doesn’t work here. And saying “we’re clearly not a threat” just yet again serves to illustrate how much you and your ilk are not listening to women, or simply don’t care about anything other than your own validation.

Or words in dds case

She got confused between the words fetus and femur

Which led to a very interesting conversation between her and her father

AAK

We are going to have to up our biology teaching in school if there's pictures!!

With a cute little cartoon uterus on the sign, Dream.

JOKE!!!!!

And it would be handy for mothers of small and mid size children

My boys were very unhappy about having to use the ladies

The 19 year is especially pissed off

A third space would absolutely work

Id be in the fucking thing if the queue was shorter!

It would just be a neutral area not just for TS or TG

Oh and well done PureGym. I am impressed they were brave enough to do it and defend the women who didn’t want someone with a penis in their changing room.

Instead of women only spaces they will have to be defined as ‘vagina only spaces’ - that seems to be the only way to keep out transwomen.

Vagina only gyms/prisons/changing rooms.

Either that or everywhere will have to provide gender neutral spaces with individual cubicles like many swimming pools do.

I’d still prefer a vagina only space though.

She said women

I know its a good thing but its incredibly sad that we now get excited because a member of some organisation uses the word woman

This was not happing a year or two ago

Third spaces would eliminate the standing out though, as well as preserving sex segregated spaces.

I'm not sure I agree.

The concern is that there are men who choose to use womens spaces as an act of sexual dominance and as an opportunity to "perv" as someone called it. If you say that these people must use the third space then they will simply return to male spaces since their desires are not being accommodated.

Secondly having a third space will still not prevent determined Male bodied pervs from trying to disguise themselves as passable women for their own ends. Making something illegal doesn't stop something but simply means the perpetrator takes extra steps to not get caught.

Thirdly you are asking TS people to advertise their dysphoria. By walking into a third space I am making a public display of stating I am TS.

I'm not saying the alternative is an answer either but third spaces can't work.

The current "solution" is part of UK law enshrined in the EA. I cannot see how this could ever be repealed. What can be done is to tighten it up with further clarification and work to address gender stereotyping to deal with future generations. TS people have been around for thousands of years.

I think focusing on giving our support to Pure Gym rather than debunking the same old talking points over and over again here would be a more productive use of everyone's time.

Brave thing to say nowadays, Fekko. All of those who've made it a brave and unusual thing to say should be ashamed of themselves.

It's not gender stereotypes, it's class analysis. It's why my husband isn't allowed in the female changing room despite not being a rapist, or any type of threat.
I am sure someone has already mentioned this but pure gym are getting all sorts of crap on twitter we need to keep showing them our support.

Interestingly there was a piece on R4 this morning with someone saying (I’m not sure if she worked for the fire service or was reviewing them) that it was a disgrace that some fire stations still didn’t have showering facilities specifically for women (where they really need to have access to washing facilities after Attending incidents, eapecially if they may have been exposed to toxic materials). She said women!

You see, what it comes down to is male people discussing which rights females may have and which rights females must relinquish, so that a group of males will feel comfortable.

This goes both ways. Biological women have the right to use a male only space in the same situation.

I do accept that the implications and practicalities are very very different in practice; I have yet to hear of a biological female choosing to expose themselves in an open plan male changing area.

That said I do feel to some extent that too much emphasis is placed on gender stereotypes that assume all men are dominating, all men have male privilege, all men seek to overthrow womens rights....Of course stating that fact gets me accused of exhibiting male pattern red flag behaviour NAMALT yet were I to say "women are x" as a generalisation I'd be sexist/chauvinist.

We are all conditioned from a very early age with negative concepts based on gender. Girls are told not to play with the boys because they might get hurt. Boys are conditioned to view women as submissive. It doesn't take much looking on the internet to see the epidemic of pornography that sees women treated like meat (and the same by the way applies to TS people).

I'm not arguing the definition of male bodied again.

No, nein, non, laa, nahin. STOP.

It’s a big fat no from me.

And because of the antics of TRAs my views over the past couple of years have hardened considerably.

Visual imagery may be useful for those who find it difficult to understand or accept words spoken by women.

We are clearly not a threat, but we are here and available for a really good, spirited, kicking.

How are males clearly not a threat when so many that come on here to point us in the right direction, always seem to point us in the direction that reduces females boundaries and their ability to access safe spaces? Clearly they [as a class] are a threat.