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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

There will be a gender question in the 2021 census

35 replies

GiantKitten · 18/12/2018 10:21

Also one on sexual orientation; but both voluntary, like religion. ONS had wanted them to be compulsory.

That might have produced some decent statistics...

Interesting though, as this officially equates gender ID with faith, not biology!

There will be a gender question in the 2021 census

OP posts:

ScrimshawTheSecond · 12/09/2019 10:07

If they outsource the contract to Lockheed Martin again like last time, I'll not be filling it in at all.

Yep.

Because I don't wish to volunteer data and/or information to a US arms dealer.

ErrolTheDragon · 12/09/2019 09:29

TBH I think I'd have preferred that had gone through, two optional questions. My concern is that this gives a second attempt for the gender identity question to be made compulsory, rather than optional for those that believe they have one (like religion)

Lumene · 12/09/2019 09:18

If they outsource the contract to Lockheed Martin again like last time, I'll not be filling it in at all.

Why?

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 12/09/2019 09:15

Just to update this thread, the BBC confirmed this morning that the prorogation has resulted in the dropping of the Bill to add to gender ID questions (one positive among a sea of negative). It basically means it will need to be started from scratch again.

Ahead of the 2021 census, a bill that would add to it two voluntary questions on sexual orientation and gender identity in England and Wales has also collapsed.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49655201

stumbledin · 18/12/2018 18:37

There is already a thread about this! www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3451460-Census-sex-life-questions-will-not-be-compulsory-Government-says

Its a shame there isn't a better way to organise topics (eg through tags or something) as quite often threads often just repeat what has already been said, or interesting points / links are not in the same place.

Also as someone relatively new to mumsnet it can feel a bit like that situation that many women experience of saying something which everyone ignores, and then a few minutes later someone says exactly the same thing, and especially if its a man everybody goes oh isn't that interesting!

FestiveNut · 18/12/2018 17:58

Aspie- it's the sex you've filled out on forms all your life. Male or female. Unless you've had it changed as an adult, which you'd probably recall doing.

HappyPunky · 18/12/2018 17:54

Aspie - if you like puppies and cushions and cupcakes that means you're a lady.

If you like trains, bears and rare steaks that means you're a gentleman.

Thingybob · 18/12/2018 17:44

I think you are unusual Aspie, most of us know where they are and have used them for things like passports, visas, jobs.

AspieAndProud · 18/12/2018 17:12

I can’t remember ever seeing my birth certificate. How do I know what sex I am?

Original poster

GiantKitten · 18/12/2018 17:07

Maybe the sex question should become something like “what was your sex at birth”? (But not assigned )

OP posts:

FestiveNut · 18/12/2018 17:03

I would imagine people would answer the male/female question according to what's now on their birth certificate (whether that's what was originally on it or not).

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 18/12/2018 17:01

Doh! good not god!

Alicethroughtheblackmirror · 18/12/2018 17:00

There's a god submission from a DSD (intersex) charity on the Scottish census bill. They are certainly not asking for a third option.
www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/CurrentCommittees/109902.aspx

Original poster

GiantKitten · 18/12/2018 16:56

Thingybob

Yes the question is clear but what did the guidance notes say? Did those notes direct transgender people to answer as the sex they felt themselves to be?

There don’t seem to be any guidance notes for the individual questions.

www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/census/censustransformationprogramme/consultations/the2021censusinitialviewoncontentforenglandandwales/2011censusquestionnaireenglandh1.pdf

OP posts:

Thingybob · 18/12/2018 16:37

Why intersex FWRlurker? No one in UK has ever had intersex written on a birth certificate

Thingybob · 18/12/2018 16:35

Yes the question is clear but what did the guidance notes say? Did those notes direct transgender people to answer as the sex they felt themselves to be?

During the evidence gathering for the Scottish census it was stated that the England and Wales guidance, for the last two census, had directed people to respond in a self identified way.

FWRLurker · 18/12/2018 16:27

This seems fine to me. I've thought about including sex and gender separately on forms before. But I haven't done so out of fear of seeming transphobic (I work in academia so yeah...).

Ideally it would say
"What is your biological sex (male/female/intersex)"

"Do you consider yourself to have a gender identity independent of your biological sex (yes/no)?"

"If yes, what is your gender identity? __ "

I wonder though how the transgender women/men who believe that Trans women/men are biologically female/men will answer these two questions?

Say in the case of a transgender woman...

If they answer Bio sex Female -> Gender ID -> Female then the census will be inaccurate but it would be consistent with their beliefs.

If they answer Bio sex Male -> Gender ID -> Female then the census will accurately capture their transgender status (which would be good for them in terms of representation/statistics) but would I assume feel invalidating and "wrong" to them.

Original poster

GiantKitten · 18/12/2018 16:24

2001 also sane.

Imagine the training on the gender question for the poor monitors (or whatever they’re called - the ones who come round to help) this time...

OP posts:

deydododatdodontdeydo · 18/12/2018 16:24

I might enter "unicorn".

starcrossedseahorse · 18/12/2018 16:23

Ah the good old days.

Original poster

GiantKitten · 18/12/2018 16:19

2011
Male or female
(Of course! What else, in those days of sanity 🙄)

OP posts:

Original poster

GiantKitten · 18/12/2018 16:16

I don’t know, but I imagine a Q worded like that would have raised millions of eyebrows in 2011, let alone 2001

OP posts:

Thingybob · 18/12/2018 15:27

So the bio sex question will remain

Has the sex question been bio or was the guidance 'the sex someone felt themselves to be' for the last two census?

I can't find the guidance to check

HappyPunky · 18/12/2018 13:15

I'll probably put N/A to hopefully avoid looking like I agree to it

FestiveNut · 18/12/2018 13:14

I wonder if they will document all answers exactly. The Jedi knights were not counted last time.

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