Women 'risk health over trans NHS worker fear' article in tomorrow's Times Scotland edition

I would agree except that they are going after 'female' in the same way that they have gone after 'woman'.

In fact some of them now claim to be bio females despite being blokes. I cannot keep up with the madness.

Yes of course I mean biologically female. The point of using "cisgendered" in that context would be to have language that creepy fetishes intent on breaking down women's clearly stated boundaries could not deliberately distort or misinterpret.

It's unfortunately clear that just "female" won't do. This thread wouldn't be here if that was the case.

By 'cisgendered' do you mean biologically female?

Or just female would do.

Because 'cisgendered' is a meaningless term.

By 'cisgendered' do you mean biologically female?

Is there any way to get it put on your health record that when you ask for a female health care practitioner you specifically mean a cisgendered female healthcare practitioner?

I'm imagining a form letter to that effect that can be taken to your GP or with you to hospital visits or to smear tests, combined with an awareness campaign. That way even women who aren't well informed about this stuff, and in particular elderly women, can make sure they are protected in this regard. I think if enough women did this then the NHS would have to take notice and set out clear policies.

Maybe people would just see a campaign like that as scaremongering though - I'm sure most people who want a female HCP wouldn't be comfortable with a trans woman, but most would probably think there's very little chance of that happening.

I wonder if these women were specifically asked “would you mind a trans woman carrying out examinations?

I expect not!

Rape Crisis Scotland's response on twitter was pretty much "actually when we ask women what worries them they say male HCPs doing examinations after their assault, not transwomen".

Completely ignoring the fact that transwomen are male, and will be read as male by a very frightened woman who has just been violated, and who is about to be violated again.

Thanks for this thread, Plectrum.

but I'm really hoping I've got this wrong!

You've understood correctly. Men's feelings are paramount and take precedence over women's feelings. Welcome to the Wonderful World of the Woke.

The current Scottish SNP Government were loud in their condemnation of benefits being restricted to two children - unless the mother could prove that a third child was a result of rape. They raged and shrieked about it. Maybe they would like to do the same as surely this is the same situation, women having to declare assault or rape to be allowed a female HCP.
I think that female only care must be provided to all women whether they have been assaulted or raped or not btw.

I think we're going to have to, Moana.

Sorry if someone has already explained this in one of the answers above, but the issue appears to be that if a trans-woman HCP is in possession of a GRC they legally don't have to disclose that they are transgender, and even if the health authority knows about it, they aren't legally allowed to disclose to the patient that the HCP is transgender. It all hinges on the GRC. It seems almost as if there is no way around it and same-sex healthcare provision can't be guaranteed unless the patient is able to request a known HCP by name.

It's a travesty. We should take to the streets.

Time for Scottish women to join the Pussy Church of Modern Witchcraft en masse, eh?

www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2018/08/03/lesbians-want-a-church-of-their-own-and-irs-approves/#6a1264b521c2

Thank you. The implications of trans self ID brings up new violations of women everyday.

Yes. some religious women will also not wish to be treated by a man. But this seems to be completely ignored. Wasn't is Madigan who said that Muslims should be 'educated' out of this mindset?

Many women who are in coercive and controlling relationships are not allowed to have medical appointments unless they can guarantee they will be seen by female staff.

Yes - no is not enough apparently.

Are they saying women will be forced to declare sexual assault so they can access basic health care with a women rather than a man doing intimate exam?

In effect, yes. Because men's feelings are more important than women's feelings. Same as it ever was.

I am struggling to follow things today.

Are they saying women will be forced to declare sexual assault so they can access basic health care with a women rather than a man doing intimate exam? As in make people share information they would rather not or re-live an assault?

Male midwives - I said no male midwife on my birth plan and it was never questioned.

Milky watch the number of self identifying trans'women' nurses rocket when predatory men realise that they have the chance to treat vulnerable women, frighten then and even inflict pain.

I am not talking about transwomen here, but predatory sex offenders who would get a huge thrill in such a situation. And yes, they would train up and spend years pursuing their career because that is what men do. It would be a dream come true for them.

Think this sounds far fetched? There is a category of porn on Pornhub (and elsewhere) called 'Obstetrics and Gynaecology'.

someone linked to this on an aibu thread. it is about informed consent. i have copied quotes:

"Consent has to be given voluntarily – consent where an individual has been coerced into making the decision will not be valid.
Sufficient information also has to be offered to enable the individual to understand the nature of the decision and its likely consequences, including the consequences of declining the treatment or intervention."

"A doctor who operates without the consent of his patient, save in cases of emergency or mental disability, is guilty of the civil wrong of trespass to the person; he is also guilty of the criminal offence of assault."

being asked to accept a transwoman who is biologically male to perform an intimate procedure seems to me to fall under coercion. many women would find it hard to say no - either due to past trauma meaning they freeze; female socialisation to not make a fuss; English as a second language; fear of upsetting the nurse's feelings; fear of being labelled transphobic (and being given substandard care because of it or even worse - hello W Yorks Police).

if a patient has requested a female nurse and are offered a transwoman i also feel that "sufficient information" has not been offered.

www.bma.org.uk/advice/employment/ethics/medical-students-ethics-toolkit/6-consent-to-treatment-capacity

It must be a tiny number of people who would be affected by a law stating that trans women can’t perform intimate medical treatment? There aren’t a huge amount of trans women, and only a small proportion of those will work in healthcare, and only a small proportion of those will be in a specific healthcare sector where they would perform intimate treatment. And I think a lot of trans people would be decent human beings and just not apply for jobs involving intimate female care to avoid controversy and discomfort for others. How many trans women will really be put out by not being eligible to provide intimate treatment?

Not many, and as pp said, those who want to put themselves in that position are exactly the ones who shouldn’t be doing it.

If we're going to play that stupid game, then fine. I am now a follower of Artemis and my religion requires that I have access to women only spaces as and when I say so. Showering in spaces where only women are allowed is now a sacrament, and pap smears are an expression of holy devotion in which only females may be present, as any male being in the room is sacrilege.

I agree, 2 can play the self id game. Arseholes.

If we're going to play that stupid game, then fine. I am now a follower of Artemis and my religion requires that I have access to women only spaces as and when I say so. Showering in spaces where only women are allowed is now a sacrament, and pap smears are an expression of holy devotion in which only females may be present, as any male being in the room is sacrilege.

Hey, it makes more sense than "female penis".