Are women hated because we are weak?

Men as a class of what?

@FestiveNut we are talking about men as a class , I thought that was fairly obvious?

Hmm. There is a lot of 'men want' and 'men do' going on in this thread. I find that such sweeping generalisations are rarely helpful. If we want men to value and respect us as individuals with autonomy rather than a faceless mass of 'women' or 'feminists' that are all the same, surely we should extend that courtesy to them? Be the change you want to see and all that?

It might be 'dangerous', but it might be the view of men. Certainly they feel entitled to any of their whims. Regarding the question of who pressures who for kids, my experience is that my dh wanted them more than I did. I can well believe it's not normal: men usually don't want the consequences, although they're usually worse for women. Women around the world usually have fewer children when they're given the chance through birth control though.

Because men go on and on at us until we agree to have kids

Eh? That seems to be the opposite of my experience.
Even on MN you can find hundreds of threads of women wanting their men to agree to a baby.
On male dominated forums you can find hundreds of threads from men about their partners nagging and pressuring them for babies.

I think you are missing my point. You seem to explain these things as stemming from a massive imbalance in desire between the sexes. I think this view is dangerous, it makes us the gatekeepers again. I think the real source is male entitlement.

Our society is massively over-sexualised: but sex sells. It's a guaranteed tactic. Porn exists, and mostly for men rather than women. Prostitution similarly. I am surprised I'm having to point out the amount of sex drive there is out there from men for women. I do think that social disapproval of any other form of emotional expression for men is part of it, as is the expression of power, but neglecting a plain and simple sex overdrive for men is neglecting evolution and biology.

There was a thread on here the other week about prostitution, a guy was explaining how only men suffer from involuntary celibacy. When I explained how prostitution was a result of male entitlement and asked about women who could not find a sexual partner he could not believe such a person existed.

Some of it is done for power of course: it's interesting how closely sex and power are linked. But, it is or was my experience, and MeToo showed that I'm not the only one.

If men don't want women to have sex with them, why the porn industry?

I never said men don't want women to have sex with them ??

Couldn't walk down the road without men trying it on.

Like I say, I'm a reasonably attractive woman. Some of my friends are what I would call stunning. The idea that as soon as we put our foot out the front door a baying mob of horny men start wolf whistling and propositioning us is alien to me. It's not my experience.

If men don't want women to have sex with them, why the porn industry?

Women cannot accept that: we cannot, because sex does have consequences.

I sort of agree with this, however my experience of men is that they are just as likely to fall in love through sex as women are. I'm not usually one who attributes what seem like deeply ingrained beliefs to socialisation but I think that the whole idea men should not be attached to sexual partners is a myth. Some men and some some women do not bond through sex and see it as a purely physical act. I think most people regard it as both a physical and emotional act, men and women..society kind of frowns upon emotional stuff for men though.

I have when I was younger. Couldn't walk down the road without men trying it on. Yes, as you get older it wears off, thank all the gods and goddesses. That's what sexual harassment is and that's what MeToo was telling people. Does your anecdote trump the anecdotes and experiences of so many: in fact that of every woman I ever spoke to about the subject, on the few occasions when we are actually allowed to talk together without male interference? The thing that men fear most is women talking together and discovering that we're not alone and powerless after all.

Also regarding your other point: women usually get men throwing themselves at them, desperate for someone to have sex with them. We usually have to filter through loads

I'm a reasonably attractive woman l like to think. Never have I had loads of men fling themselves at me. There is a societal assumption that men want to fuck women all the time and think of little else, but it's not really true and it leads to a lot of heartbreak for women who regard them left on the shelf etc or who's husband no longer wants to have sex with them.

The short and simple answer to the op's question then I would say is: kids. Men want sex with no consequences. All the time preferably: they are permanently on heat. Women cannot accept that: we cannot, because sex does have consequences.

I often think that modern contraception was more of a benefit to men than to women.

I wonder why a man's financial status and ability to support is so critical to so many women. 🤔

Because men go on and on at us until we agree to have kids, then discover we get saddled with all the work for them and the men can't begin to accept that life is now different, cannot cope with the responsibility and either act so badly that the women are better off without them or clear off by themselves? That's the story of most single mums I've come across.

Also regarding your other point: women usually get men throwing themselves at them, desperate for someone to have sex with them. We usually have to filter through loads to get to someone who wants something a bit more. All the blockers are ways of checking that in my experience: the equivalent of a woman wearing extremely low cut clothing and trying to find a man who looks into her eyes rather than leering over her body. I know I was quite happy when I got a reputation for being frigid through University because it suddenly meant I got less harassment from all the desperate males and those left were those who were interested in something a bit more meaningful.

That doesn't bear out outside of FWR though.
^The old fashion notion of women needing a man to care for them, or provide for them, or just wanting a man, still holds out.
Most of my single friends (divorced now because of my age) are pretty desperate for a man. Half of their fb status updates are about being lonely, needing to find a man, etc.^
I know that won't resonate much with many people who post on FWR, but even on other sections of MN it's the case.
I don't see that men need us more than we need them.

I see this too.

It's often women who end up with the kids and some men unfortunately see a woman with children as 'additional baggage' (horrible but true).

On the flipside, I've also got a few female friends who are seemingly stressing out about being childless in their 30s. This is generally less of an issue for men (outside of specific medical issues) and it's also seemingly easier for a 35yo man to date a woman ten years his younger than it is a woman.

I've noticed that some gay men do indeed dislike women, but then the reverse with some lesbians who seem to dislike men.

Part of me wonders whether it's due to seeing through the manipulative behaviour some people exhibit which is more likely to be tolerated if you're attracted to an individual - e.g. attractive women using their beauty to get men to pay for things, men 'showing off' to try and win a woman's attention, etc.

I've always believed it's down to men wanting, and in fact, needing women rather more than women want or need them.

That doesn't bear out outside of FWR though.
The old fashion notion of women needing a man to care for them, or provide for them, or just wanting a man, still holds out.
Most of my single friends (divorced now because of my age) are pretty desperate for a man. Half of their fb status updates are about being lonely, needing to find a man, etc.
I know that won't resonate much with many people who post on FWR, but even on other sections of MN it's the case.
I don't see that men need us more than we need them.

I've met plenty of gay men who are repulsed by women

From the gay men in my entourage, they think all men are fair game. It was just a suggestion to explain OP's point

I don't think I've ever met a gay man who hated women.

Whilst I've no doubt some men hate women, a quick browse of any of the major dating sites will quickly reveal that the most entitled users are far and away the female ones - obv not all of them, but far more than the men.

This just doesn't ring true to me of the oppressed, maligned group women are so often presented as on here.

"Don't contact me if you're under 6'2."

"Don't contact me unless you have your own house/are financially successful."

"I only date ambitious men."

"I'm looking for a man to treat me/sweep me off my feet/show me the world."

And then the guys are like "Hi, I'm George. I'm an easy going guy that enjoys outdoor pursuits and I'm looking for someone that shares the same interests."

You even see some women select 'high maintenance' or 'princess' as personality type which you literally never see the men do.

It's certainly odd behaviour for a much maligned group so hated by men. Many act almost as if they've been put on pedestal, but surely it must be intentional irony.

You also rarely see male users setting financial criteria ("must be financially secure" etc) for their potential partners. I wonder why this is? I mean, we know from on here that most women are desperate to rush back to corporate world and combat the burden of motherhood by increasing paternity options, so I wonder why a man's financial status and ability to support is so critical to so many women. 🤔

I've always believed it's down to men wanting, and in fact, needing women rather more than women want or need them. They have to artificially force us to need them as much as they need us. They absolutely hate the fact that we have free will and do not want to have sex with everyone we see.
Part of the problem is also that for men sex is a pure pleasure, with no bad consequences whatsoever. They can just fuck and go, and they really really want to all the time. For women sex has consequences - we can get pregnant. That causes the many social consequences associated with it for us too. Before the modern era of medicine pregnancy carried a real risk of death. Women had every reason to avoid sex.

make sure there's a 50% women quota everywhere.

And what if some women don’t want to do certain roles/careers that would have to be filled under your quota system?