Are women hated because we are weak?

I don’t understand why you’d come on a women's rights chat forum when you clearly at best hold a massive disdain for any woman anywhere who is not utterly subservient to the concept that men are just better than women and we should be grateful for that. It’s both fallacious and incredibly tiresome.

I don't understand why you'd come onto a women's forum and almost exclusively discuss topics about transsexual individuals when you're not trans yourself (well, I do actually but I'm making a point).

I'm interested in a lot of different social and political theories, and I frequent a diverse range of other forums. The reason I find myself drawn to comment so vociferously on here is because we regularly see completely unfounded and offensive statements about men which would not be tolerated were the situation reversed. Statements like 'women have children because men pester them and they give in' as we saw earlier on this thread. Or 'men hate women.'

Yes, the majority of violence is committed by men, but it's an extremely small proportion of men. And furthermore the prejudice is only directed against men - you'd never dare make the same statements against ethnic groups or socioeconomic groups who also exhibit increased levels of violence and criminal offending (I wonder why).

Imagine a world where women truly had 50/50 representation and power.

Power as we know is the ability to control and direct men. Men glorify leaders like Eisenhower and Churchill to a lesser extent Putin. Can we imagine a world in which a woman rather than Old Ike pats the men on the shoulder and looks them in the eye before they get on the landing craft ?

I think that the main advantage of having women in power would be the avoidance of such catastrophes. But that's a different sort of "power" than the one I think men traditionally consider.

Feminism is for the liberation of women. I’m not surprised people shy away from that or demonise it. As I’ve said before, it’s amazing we have as many rights for women as we do because everyone and their mother seems to think we should shut up and be grateful for being allowed to exist.

Imagine a world where women truly had 50/50 representation and power. It’s not about a hierarchy where women replace men as top dog, it’s about having an equal say and an equal responsibility without having one hand tied behind your back all the time.

I do think that feminists who resort to trying to convince everyone that women are somehow better than men set the cause back somewhat. Equality will be much easier to achieve if more men are feminists too.

Well said.

The elephant in the room though which is rarely discussed head on here is why fewer then 8% of women consider themselves feminists while overwhelmingly pretty much all women believe in equality. I have seen people on here offer ‘internalised misogyny‘ as reason for that 8% stat which on the face of things is pretty insulting to a lot of women who have suddenly had any agency to form their own opinions stripped from them. The fact is in recent years feminism has become a toxic brand (yes I know that’s a strong word) that not many people want identity with.

You said he’s making sensible arguments.

I didn't say I agree with all his posts, but that I don't think it's unreasonable for (him?) to ask for sources and he doesn't seem to be a troll, so I disagree with those trying to suggest he shouldn't post on here.

I'm also trying to suggest that disparaging men as a sex probably isn't the most helpful thing to do.

I'm really not sure about this theory men despise us because we are all sexual temptresses who they lust after. Look around you, how many real women could be described thus ?

I think men are disgusted by female sexuality in a way. Men are generally very very suspicious of other men, especially those outside their family or friendship group. They seem disgusted by the idea a woman would want to have sex with men.
I think this is where victim blaming can stem from. Some men seem genuinely repulsed by the thought of women having sex with other men, they are baffled by the idea women want to have sex with men and hence you get the seemingly unsympathetic "wtf was she doing with him any way?" Men see this as a weakness and fundamental foreigness I think as they obviously can't imagine themselves being alone and naked with another man, vulnerable.

Obviously not all men and the above is speculation/opinion.

What on earth are you on about nut? In a couple of posts we’ve had I don’t believe in class analysis, followed by an example of class analysis when it suits and then a specific example of one woman who committed a violent non sexual crime with a male and that this is equivalent to the constant sexual and violent crime men carry out against women the world over. Why the fuck should anyone be obliged to engage with this shit to ‘prove’ their arguments are sound? My arguments are sound, I don’t need to try and attempt to plait the fog of someone who’s argument changes but who’s underlying point is women who aren’t grateful to men need to change, or else.

To be fair, 32% of uk men (according to one survey) consider themselves feminists, so quite a few normal men may wish to read a feminist forum.

www.statista.com/statistics/816438/respondents-who-agree-that-they-are-a-feminist-uk/

Seems to me that Scottycheg is making sensible arguments rather than trying to be a troll. If a viewpoint cannot stand scrutiny, that suggests to me that those holding that viewpoint need to critically evaluate it a bit.

I'm a feminist and do think that if sweeping statements about any section of society are to be made, they do need to be backed up by evidence. I agree with Scott on that point. It does make sense to me that women would be better at shift work, just because their bodies would be designed to wake with babies and suffer interrupted sleep. My DH does seem to suffer more than me in this. However, I'd need to find the evidence to back it up in order to make a claim about women's enhanced abilities at shift work. My personal experience in this doesn't count for much.

I do think that feminists who resort to trying to convince everyone that women are somehow better than men set the cause back somewhat. Equality will be much easier to achieve if more men are feminists too.

Weak? We are powerful. Maybe that's the issue.

It is fascinating.

‘I’ll go on the feminist section of mn and tell them what they’re doing wrong’ said no normal guy ever.

I don’t understand why you’d come on a women's rights chat forum when you clearly at best hold a massive disdain for any woman anywhere who is not utterly subservient to the concept that men are just better than women and we should be grateful for that. It’s both fallacious and incredibly tiresome.

I just don't understand why the ones who complain the loudest seem also to be the ones who are the least willing to do anything about it

What did you mean Scott?

You're massively missing the point.

The case you are referring to had two co-accused, a male and a female. I'm not sure why you only mentioned the female and failed to mention the male.

Steven Khan and Anne Marie Wall left their victim in agony as scalding hot water was poured from a kettle on to his genitals.

Also, this female didn't target her victim because of his sex, she targeted him for money because the three of them were known associates and led a chaotic drug/drink fuelled existence.

I can't see how any of it bears any correlation to how men target and abuse women.

To rape and kill that is, not for the contents of their handbag.

Drug addict Anne Marie Wallpoured boiling water over.the genitals of a 'defenceless' 61yo man during a robbery in which the intention was to secure money to buy drugs.

Does this.prove that women hate men? No, it's just the actions of one nutter like the story above.

I think men who hate women generally do so because they see women have so much power - the opposite of weak. I think in some cases it triggers their own feelings of inadequacy and weakness.

Women have;

Power to attract male attention
Power to refuse that male attention
Power to make that male feel deprived/not good enough
Power to create life and give birth to children
Power to be equal and be lawfully treated as an equal to men (uk)
Power to work and earn well in careers alongside men
Power to trap men into fatherhood
Power to decide over pregnancy/termination
Power to trap men into jail with false rape claims
Power to be a sex appealing temptress but unobtainable to weak, unattractive or unwealthy men
Power to say no

Some men want all the power so they destroy the threat.

The recent press reports on the Natalie Connolly murder case is a prime example of a woman hating, vile, misogynistic male.

After finding out she was possibly messaging other men, smashed her eye from its socket, sprayed her face in bleach and rammed a carpet cleaning bottle inside her vagina. Probably in punishment at her being a 'dirty bitch' of course.

She was left in a horrifically exposed degrading position overnight like a piece of trash he obviously saw her as.

I'm glad I don't have a daughter.

"Straight men hate women.
Women often seem to hate women.
Transwomen often seem to hate women.
Gay men often often seem to hate women."

First of all, that's sexist, transphobic and homophobic.
Second of all, I would like you to display factual evidence from an UNBIASED, TRUSTWORTHY AND PRIMARY source that states ANY of this is true.
Third of all, I wish you would stop blaming men for all of your problems. Most men are NOT sexist, sex-driven pigs. The sexist society of the fifties is gone and sexism is a lot more subtle and less common. Get that through your head.
Fourth of all, many of the replies to this post are "Oh, women are strong." Um, yeah, no shit. But that doesn't mean that other genders (yes, I said other genders seeing as there is more than two) are weak.
While I do support equal rights, I wish that people would relie on facts instead of their own discriminatory opinions.

My username is "LogicPlease" for a reason.

Mentally women seem to be able to cope with more shifts thrown at them then men.

Are you able to back up this claim?

Men work about 40% more overtime than women as a class last time I checked, and there are more men doing the types of jobs which require 12 hour days (non-office jobs like driving, technical, construction, etc). Nurses being the obvious exception.

Even physically women’s bodies are better at fighting disease and last longer. Mentally women seem to be able to cope with more shifts thrown at them then men.

This is an interesting biological difference. Specifically, women don't exactly have stronger immune systems overall but their immune systems degrade less with advancing age. The mental aspect is equally interesting, the intellectual spread for men is wider than women, there are more geniuses as well as more idiots in the male population.

Evolutionarily, this makes sense. Male cognitive variability is less detrimental to the production of adult offspring than it would be in females, in the sense that a father who comes up with a novel way of hunting mammoths might help their children thrive but the child of an idiot who hunts mammoths by taunting them with a soft stick might still have their children live to reproduce if the mother is able to provide sufficient food. This also accounts for the greater physical strength of men, if women held the advantage they would be more likely to go on risky hunts.

Women are not weaker then men. Even physically women’s bodies are better at fighting disease and last longer. Mentally women seem to be able to cope with more shifts thrown at them then men.

I didn’t think this was literally just about the men that are physically violent towards women. I think that’s interesting how some posters interpret it through the lens of physical power and the violence you can cause with that. It also reframes what people like me are saying to make it look like we’re being mean to men who have no political capital and that we’re being lazy because we’re not getting off our arses and down to the dv shelter. I was talking about the great and the good that own the resources and wield the power.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster

If it is true that men who were brought up by single mums tend to be more violent/criminal, surely that’s likely to be because such single parent families are more likely to live in poverty than their dual parented counterparts?

What on earth have single parents got to do with men wielding most of the powerful positions for most of recorded history across most cultures?

I’m not talking about feeling empowered, I’m talking about actual power to change actual things through legislation etc. Not all men have that power, but generally that power lies in the hands of men.

Women are hated because women are beautiful and strong.

That's why we are in the sixth extinction period. Beautiful and strong insects, animals and flora all on the brink on extinction because some ugly men choose to demolish this beauty.

Erm.......riiiiiiiiiiggght

NURSE!!!