Why does MN feminism focus on trans?

Sorry for the long ramble, but have left of the most important part.

The trans narrative excuses / pardons men. It means they can say they are not the problem.

If the basis of women's discrimination is their sex, then the perpetrators of it are the male sex.

Reject the notion of the reality of sex, and hey presto, men can no longer be accused of sex class oppression!

Why does MN feminism focus on trans?

Because it is the most overt signifier that the male backlash against women to undermine the advances of women's liberation not only happened but if we dont resist will suceed.

The basis of women's liberation is our shared experience of discrimination, violence and restrictions that women face just because of our sex, whether by individual men or patriarchal society.

The issue of gender dysphoria has been hijacked by MRAs who are using it as a sledgehammer to undermine the limited victories women have achieved, eg sex discrimination laws, financial independence rights, etc., etc., etc..

If you accept the trans narrative that sex is immaterial or is no different to having an "identity" then you effectively remove the material reality of women's discrimination, ie biological sex.

It also removes from women the right to self determine and be autonomous as it is an attempt to occupy women's territory, a form of colonialism.

And what many women have found, are now finding, is that while we were busy at the grass roots level sharing and supporting other women, MRAs through the priviledge of male networks have been working to undermine women's rights by influencing government, educators and the media to erase women's sex class analysis of the basis of our oppression by implying that basis (sex) does not exist.

The male backlash started with queer politics infiltrating universities back in the 80s. Women's studies became gender studies and so on. Products of that education who moved into the media happily colluded by changing language so that most media outlets now exclusively use (inappropriately) gender when they are talking / reporting about sex. (In the same way that the NUJ gave in and started using the phrase sex worker instead of prostitute.)

Perhaps the biggest realisation / shock is realising how willing all parts of society were happy to go along with this. The what had seemed like an achievement of getting society to recognise that women were discriminated against, was so easily pushed out from the agenda.

It has reached a peak now because what had seemed like harmless tokenism of the original GRA was in fact the trojan horse that misogynists were / are going to use to erase women's rights (eg Stonewall admiting it wanted to have Sex removed as a protected characteristic in the EA). Women became aware of the gulf it was creating between themselves and younger people (including our own children) who are effectively a 2nd or 3rd genderation bought up hearing and being taught that sex is no different to gender.

It impacts on the provision of women's services, eg Rape Crisis and Women's Aid, as well as the impact on women's working lives of pregnancy and children. If women are not a biological class but an identity how can you provide appropriate services or support.

In many ways it is almost as though we are trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted. So many aspects of our society have been permeated with this false narrative.

And part of the anger / despair is realising how little we have been valued as women asserting our rights that nobody until we started to push back.

It is no different than if a forum for BAME people started to focus on transracialism if they found out that behind their backs white people had been maneuvering to eradicate the reality of racism by denying race.

Thanks r0 I knew I'd come across instances of that somewhere!

It is spun that we are trying to "gatekeep" womanhood, as if it is some private members club. What this has underlined to me is that, personally, I don't often need to differentiate my sex class from that of males. I have friends of both sexes and we don't tend to do "girls' nights" or "boys nights". I am friendly with both halves of the hetero partnerships I know. I'm lucky to have worked in a female run environment for a long time so I don't see sex discrimination at work on a daily basis.

But the times I do need to distinguish between males and females it is a genuine and serious need! eg for health, ptsd, safeguarding and personal safety reasons.

I feel like this must be a disappointment to trans activists.

i thought the tra movement had actually tried to appropriate "female". they've certainly appropriated the word "feminism". maybe because "female" also applies to other mammals it wasn't so easy to steal.

Some influential transwomen assert that they are female eg Sarah Brown (Stonewall / Lib Dems) & Sue Pascoe (Channel 4 adviser / Mesmac / Conservatives).
Sue Pascoe. who has made public that she has a GRC made this explicit on Sky interview earlier this year (from 3:20)

news.sky.com/story/we-need-to-combat-moral-hysteria-over-gender-recognition-11440618

Mn is pretty much the only place it can be discussed without fear.

*Girl guides.

It's a massive fucking safeguarding loophole that no one in government has cottoned on to, few in the media have tackled and anyone who does (especially women) is accused of hate crimes or much worse (they get doxxed attacked etc).

It's also very closely tied to the whole gender stereotype issue which when you have children you learn can be a big problem for your own children. Plus the safeguarding. Which of course, all parents think about constantly and where there's a massive loophole in many areas; guides guides, some schools etc. Which few organisations or government agencies are recognising.... and so it goes on.

i thought the tra movement had actually tried to appropriate "female". they've certainly appropriated the word "feminism". maybe because "female" also applies to other mammals it wasn't so easy to steal. declaring the term "female" to be transphobic looks to me like an accidental admission of their failure.

it is a bit of a relief to find there is still a word i can use to accurately describe my sex class when i need to.

Drastic action on reducing domestic abuse and violence of all kinds, that would really work.

& control, especially coercive control. Mumsnet & Women's Aid recent video:

I agree R0

Drastic action on reducing domestic abuse and violence of all kinds, that would really work.

Knicknackpaddyflak

If the substantial amount of money due to be gifted to Mermaids Charity from the Lottery is held back, the funds could be available to make a start.

Imagine how this might help all young people if they had access to the information and awareness at schools & universities?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3452489-Mermaids-given-500-000-by-National-Lottery-Sunday-Times

Basically the entire general public now needs access to the freedom programme and a free copy of 'why does he do that' by Lundy Bancroft.

Yes absoutely.

Basically the entire general public now needs access to the freedom programme and a free copy of 'why does he do that' by Lundy Bancroft.

Correct.

Because it is a huge current issue currently in consultation. Lots of activism as a result, abuse and threats to women, debate about the very meaning of what it is to be a woman, the possible threat to our rights if sex is taken out of things etc. That's why people are talking about it

1. If we can’t recognise the biological basis of female oppression we can’t have a feminist movement which seeks to eradicate our oppression. The TRA movement argues viciously against the material reality of female oppression.
2. The TRA movement has the backing of key government players and multinational corporations which are currently acting to women’s disadvantage.
3. The TRA lobby are coming for our children hard and fast with propaganda based on bad science ( or more frequently nothing more than feels) which if accepted would result in many of our children being convinced to have healthy body parts removed aswell as a life long dependency on expensive and toxic drugs.

And look at the sheer manipulativeness of it:

Female is a word that cannot be got around - an implication that there is a bit of woman not yet fully conquered.

So:

Bring on the dodgy pseudo science throwing as much fog onto the concept of female as possible

Appropriate and use any possible community, disability, animal or anything else that throws more fog onto the concept of female

Pull out all the clichés and tedious tropes about 'dehumanising language' and 'exclusion' and wave around a whole lot of appropriated language and phrases from disability rights in the hope that they dogwhistle people into associating total bullshit with justified inclusion

Make dark hints and threats of what failing to comply might do to vulnerable people and jump up and down on anyone with a normal social conscience to try and activate their guilt, shame, sense of responsibility and direct it where they want it

Tell everyone, repeatedly, that a common word is rude and offensive and unkind with the hope that if they bang on about it long enough it'll fade into the general consciousness

Publicly threaten and terrorise any woman who makes enough noise or gains enough attention in pointing out, arguing with or resisting these tactics, and ensure she is made an example of to scare other women (and MPs ffs) from daring to say that Emperor is Stark Bollock Naked and Looking Like A Prat. (moan a bit about men, but basically leave them alone.)

Basically the entire general public now needs access to the freedom programme and a free copy of 'why does he do that' by Lundy Bancroft.

Sorry best

Should point out that the

Start your own thread comment isnt aimed at you, ive just seen it a lot on here

I should have just said women. Not bio women (what other kind is there?)

So Sally Hines is planning to write about why bio sex is no longer applicable to feminist activism? That seems like an excellent use of time and research money

Meanwhile, bio women are being murdered by domestic partners at a rate of two a week. Experiencing pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding. Menstruation and menopause. Sexism. FGM. Not applicable, though.

(Sorry to hijack but that tweet has got to be a joke. Surely?

I've lived the most privileged middle class life known to woman and I still deal with shit based in biology and resulting in discrimination every fucking day.

Very funny prof Hines. Looking forward to reading the real article.)

the word female is transphobic

Because using it states there is still a category of biological women which does not include males.

As Datun says, you are not complying, and will be punished. The whole point of this is forcing everyone to agree that a man is a woman in every single way if he says so, and eliminating language and any kind of definition or provision for women that does not specifically validate that man as a woman.

Giving an inch - such as being polite about, ok we'll say transwomen are socially a type of woman if it makes them happy, and using chosen pronouns is just polite - is just grabbed as an inch of ground gained in compliance that can be further exploited, and they start work on the next piece of ground. Read up on compliance training and grooming in abuse tactics. Slice by slice.

Fuck. That.

Yeah, that shark has been jumped.

It is ridiculous enough that I am forced to use the word ‚female‘ because ‚woman‘ doesn‘t mean shit any more these days.

I don't feel that and as I said earlier I am bringing up children to use the word woman. The word they sometimes use is 'lady' ffs.

I could say:

A lady asked me the time.
A woman asked me the time.
A female asked me the time.

Well, the first one makes me sound like a toddler and the third just sounds weird.

Non?

That twitter comment posted by CosmicCanary isn't the only ludicrous statement made by SH last night. This type of deluded thinking does nothing to protect - and certainly not to promote - female rights & issues.

its like asking why people are all smoking in a smoking shelter - it's because they can't anywhere else

Oooh very nice...i like that

I dont offer much in the way of debate on these threads...but i really dont like the idea of women NOT being able to discuss stuff because it makes some people uncomfortable

As long as its within the guidelines of whichever forum they are on, and yes there are what I consider to be transphobic posts on here, which are deleted when reported...doesnt make the site transphobic or everyone who posts on FWR

Dont like the threads? Start your own

And part of the reason these trans threads last for 1000 posts is that some people feel they have to have the last word...even when it no longer bears any resemblance to the OP