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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Apple's billion dollar investment directed at allowing men into women's bathrooms

564 replies

QuietContraryMary · 14/12/2018 08:13

<a class="break-all" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20181214081045/www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/12/13/tech-firms-helped-knock-texas-bathroom-bill-apples-1b-campus-fatal-blow" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20181214081045/www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2018/12/13/tech-firms-helped-knock-texas-bathroom-bill-apples-1b-campus-fatal-blow

" Big businesses helped kill the Texas bathroom bill two years ago, targeting it as discriminatory and unnecessary.

They said the legislation, which would have required Texans to use the restrooms that match their sex at birth, would have hampered efforts to woo new companies to the state and turned off convention planners and sports leagues looking at venues for events.

Now, some companies are doubling down on that commitment, citing diversity and inclusivity as factors in their decisions. Apple made this clear Thursday, when it announced a $1 billion investment in the capital city.

The bathroom bill, or something like it, may be back when state lawmakers meet in 2019. But opponents of these restroom regulations say the business community will again give them the ammunition they need to shoot down such divisive legislation.

OP posts:
CottonTailRabbit · 14/12/2018 16:36

Ok, that was a poor point on my end, but there are ways to stop transwomen who are convicted sex offenders from harming female prisoners, rather than force them into men's prisons where they could be raped or seriously harmed.

Well, if there are ways to keep people safe from predatory men, why not keep the rapist transwoman in the men's prison and apply those protections there? That way the women are definitely safe from the penis-haver. Why not do that?

FloralBunting · 14/12/2018 16:34
BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 14/12/2018 16:20

" transwomen, who look completely female, to use the men's toilets."

Oh, they look completely female do they? No, they bloody don't. You might be fooled but few of us women would be.

Still, let one kind of man into women's private spaces and you're letting them all in. Take my word for it, we do not want that. And will fight to prevent it. You might not understand and that's OK because you don't have to. Just fuck off out of our private spaces!

Bubonicpanic · 14/12/2018 16:16

This is giving me a massive laugh for a Friday afternoon. I might crack open the wine and watch.

Bubonicpanic · 14/12/2018 16:14

Who is this donkey?

AspieAndProud · 14/12/2018 16:08

You should have lead with ‘I don't quite understand the motivation behind unisex toilets’ and saved us the effort of reading the rest.

Come back when you understand.

Bowlofbabelfish · 14/12/2018 16:05

Do you think humans can change sex?

AspieAndProud · 14/12/2018 16:01

That’s a very long way of saying, ‘Pay attention to me while I’m being creepy.’

FamousPJ · 14/12/2018 15:56

Point 2. Read the mermaids and all sorts guidance for schools. Read the UK safeguarding framework. Note the points of contradiction.

Given your other comments, I'm having a hard time believing you on this, but I will check it at some point sure.

What do you mean by ‘allowing men to transition has no impact.’? Of course it does unless SEX based rights are clarified. If a woman is anyone who feels like one, then ‘woman’ is meaningless and any laws that prevent disadvantage based on sex are moot

Logically, this doesn't hold. Someone transitioning to a woman and having women's laws apply to them isn't going to impact how those laws apply to you. A transwomen being protected by laws designed to protect women would not have any impact on how you are protected by those laws. You will have to give a specific example, because there appears to be no legal basis for what you're trying to argue here.

It’s not that women have rights that men don’t - of course it isn’t hmm it’s about discriminating against women.

Again, laws that protect women from discrimination won't apply to you any less just because those laws would also protect a transwoman.

Point four: you’re not concerned that a convicted rapist and child abuser with previous for using ‘I’m a woman’ to get into a locked women’s psych ward and rape a woman’ was put in a women’s jail? A jail that had a mum and baby unit? Because ‘women do worse?’ Okidoki.*

Ok, that was a poor point on my end, but there are ways to stop transwomen who are convicted sex offenders from harming female prisoners, rather than force them into men's prisons where they could be raped or seriously harmed.

5: I didnt suggest transgirls are a danger. You did.

Yes you did. You said that transgirls showering with biological girls puts their safety at risk.

Im saying that Male predators (I’m not even talking about people identifying as the opposite sex, I’m talking about men who will use this loophole) can now access girls where they couldnt before. And they will.

As I already explained, having a law to prevent male sex offenders from entering women's toilets or changing rooms won't change anything. A sex offender is already breaking the law; having another law saying "you can't go in that room" isn't going to deter them.

Do you honestly think a male sex offender looks at a women's changing room and thinks "I really want to carry out a crime of sexual assault right now... But there's a law saying I can't go into women's changing rooms, so I guess I'm just going to turn around and go home now because I'm a law-abiding citizen"? Yeah, I didn't think so either.

If you are concerned about sexual assaults in changing rooms and toilets, better surveillance should be your concern. Not transwomen.

6. Of you’d like to discuss the impacts of puberty blockers and cross sex hormones I’m happy to do so. It’s fairly horrific.
An academic from Bristol uni among others is pushing for children to have legally recognised genders and to be legally recognised in their gender earlier. Mermaids et al say children are competent from age five. They are not. And doing so will have consequences for safeguarding

I trust that healthcare professionals who deal with these children have the best understanding of what's right for them, moreso than you or I. Saying that theyre doing this because of a weird men's sexual conspiracy is the stuff of pure fantasy.

Ahhh... and if it’s Male violence transwomen fear, then its men who need to shape up. Why are men not told to be less violent?

They are being told to be less violent. Violence against transwomen has legal repercussions. But a small minority of men will be violent no matter what they're told (even in a prison) and it's difficult to keep tabs on them 100% of the time (yes, even in a prison), so the best solution is to remove the transwoman from harm.

Suggesting that transwomen should have to stay in a man's prison, and that we should just tell prisoners to be less violent, is an outrageous suggestion. Should we tell female victims of domestic abuse to stay with their husbands, and just tell the husband to be less violent? Does it not make more sense to remove a domestic abuse victim from the crime and find a safer place for her instead?

Why is making toilets mixed sex making anyone safer? It isn’t. Using your argument a man could just follow a transwoman on anyway.

It doesn't, but nor is it more dangerous. Personally though, I don't quite understand the motivation behind unisex toilets; but in terms of male Vs female toilets, I think it's silly to try to force transwomen, who look completely female, to use the men's toilets.

HestiaParthenos · 14/12/2018 15:46

But I guess if we're gonna be all modern and metro, we could go back to poor folks sharing while the rich pay for dignity.....

I think, personally, if I'm not allowed dignity, I may as well wear skirts and squat on the street whenever I have to pee.
As working class women used to do before women got sex segregated public toilets.

I don't use public toilets because I feel more comfortable peeing into a porcelain bowl than onto the earth. I use them for privacy.

Remove the privacy, and the only remaining difference is that the public toilet is more likely to be dirty than the nice public lawn.

That's not a threat, just a statement of facts.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 14/12/2018 15:34

because I'm not gay and the idea of urinating in the company of another man is really weird to me.

What?

Whats it got to do with being gay??

How are you urinating together???

Oh god dont answer that

KindOfAGeek · 14/12/2018 15:32

And FYI: She got a nice pay day after the guy got canned for inappropriate behavior. She had a witness (me).

In a world of cubicles, there are no private corridors.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 14/12/2018 15:30

male colleague is every bit as capable as a female colleague of comforting a sexually harassed woman and reporting

Errmmmmm

Okay

The thought that a sexually harassed woman might not want to talk to a man hasn't occurred to you I suppose

KindOfAGeek · 14/12/2018 15:26

The actual history:

Ancient Rome had multiple seater toilets which no notion of privacy or sex segregation, unless you were rich. Then you paid to make sure you had privacy. When you could, you did.

The history of public toilets in the modern western world is sex segregated: Men only, women stay at home.

Sex segregated female only toilets were a means of allowing women the right to be outside. There is a persistent Internet meme that they were the result of as some weird idea that women were feeble and weak, the history shows they were originally established to allow women some access to the world, which men wanted to deny.

And still do, in India (most notably) and in other parts of the world.

But I guess if we're gonna be all modern and metro, we could go back to poor folks sharing while the rich pay for dignity.....

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 14/12/2018 15:26

I thought the lack of chatting to a mate in the bogs was one of two things

  1. Poster is male
  1. Poster has no friends

I'm pleased its the first

AspieAndProud · 14/12/2018 15:25

Maybe they should fit sinks and paper towel dispensers in corridors for people who are upset.

JellySlice · 14/12/2018 15:23

The Mansplainer has landed.

*Men don't gossip in the men's room in your world. Women don't discuss things in the women's room.

Not in my world, in the real world. The full extent of my conversations in the toilet is "hello."*

You feel the need to dictate how women should behave, and disbelieve that women's needs may differ to yours.

Personally, if I saw someone upset by something, I would discuss it with them... In a quiet space or a short corridor.

In a quiet space or a short corridor like the handwash area of the ladies' loos. Durr.

AspieAndProud · 14/12/2018 15:16

I doubt if most men want to share a toilet with men who want to share toilets with women either.

Creepy is creepy.

Bowlofbabelfish · 14/12/2018 15:12

Oh yes aspie. But I doubt we change the poster’s mind - we talk to those lurking on the boards.

Which is why there’s been a 12 fold increase in traffic landing on feminism.

Posters telling a board full of women why they shouldn’t have private spaces does our job for us. Carry on, chaps!

AspieAndProud · 14/12/2018 15:09

I think we are being far to polite.

Nobody owes men an explanation of why they shouldn’t be in the ladies toilets.

Those who least understand the need for boundaries are the least likely to respect them when you explain it to them.

Most men recognise instinctively that violating women’s spaces is creepy.

Bowlofbabelfish · 14/12/2018 15:02

OK then, you tell me the precise year public lavs were available to women in this country.

And while you google, ask why all the aid and development agencies push for single sex sanitary provision.

BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted · 14/12/2018 15:00

"That's a version of history which simply didn't happen and has no basis in reality."

OK then, you tell me the precise year public lavs were available to women in this country.

AspieAndProud · 14/12/2018 14:59

What part of No! don’t you understand?

Bowlofbabelfish · 14/12/2018 14:59

pj couple of question for you, if you would?

  1. Can humans change sex?

2.why do we have single sex provisions for things like prisons, toilets, etc?

FloralBunting · 14/12/2018 14:58

Bloody hell. Oh for one day in my life where a man doesn't think he can come along and talk uninformed shite about something he knows nothing about and will not affect him.

Your cock isn't an all access pass to every discussion. Ffs.