Apple's billion dollar investment directed at allowing men into women's bathrooms

I think you missed the point completely

Less than one a year (total 7 or 8 I believe) is a far smaller rate of murder than 2 a week.

I think you've missed the point. The number is smaller, but the rate is higher because the population of transwomen is smaller than the population of women.

If a country has 1% black people, but 80% of them become murder victims, does that mean we shouldn't care about murder rates in black people if the absolute numbers are smaller than the number of non-black people being killed? Yeah, maths is a bitch isn't it?

PJ I doubt many Silicon Valley types are feminist.

DC went to a very academic central London school with plenty of very bright techie types. (There were eight Harvard acceptances in DDs year alone, who presumably will be studying with the Silicon Valley entrepreneurs of the future.) Nice kids but DCs friends tended to be interested in gaming, sciency stuff, Lord of the Rings type films, etc. Yes the girls were feminist in that they were not going to let the boys get away with to much entitlement. But I'm not sure many, the boys especially, ever thought about feminism. And indeed some may go onto find typical gender roles convenient.

I am still struggling to understand the reasons behind behind your spirited if inaccurate, defence of Apple. One of the obvious problems with these huge tech companies is governance. They have a vast impact on society yet the decision makers exist in a small bubble of like minded people, indeed may be surrounded by people who are paid by them, and are not really accountable to anyone.

I'm not dancing either, but I just wanted to say that no decent man would even think about pushing their way into women's spaces. And that includes transwomen.

On the contrary, transwomen are the victims of high levels of violence from men, far moreso than biological women. Good to see they have your sympathy.

Male violence is a very serious issue, male pattern abuse and violence patterns remain similar regardless of gender identity.
Men need to deal with this.

Male violence, sexual assault, and coercive control against females remains widespread and must be recognised for what it is, male-pattern abuse.

Mumsnet & Women's Aid recent video about coercive control:

Women need single sex spaces for safety, privacy and dignity.

Ps your numbers are wrong.

That's just the most lovely idea PJ, but men as a sex class are violent and women as a sex class are overwhelmingly vulnerable to such violence, so until the menz can sort themselves out women need sex based protections.

Some evidence here, much more posted all over FWR if you care to engage: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/unisex-changing-rooms-put-women-in-danger-8lwbp8kgk

How many boxes of Kleenex are we up to?

Dull dull dull

Repetion of the word logical. Tedious maths. It really is a certain type isn't it?

Hiding this one now, it's too full of pathetic spite to even laugh at.

I think you missed the point completely

Less than one a year (total 7 or 8 I believe) is a far smaller rate of murder than 2 a week.

More trans people have murdered people than have been murdered.

The suicide stats are bull too.

Typical abuse tactic.

Do what I want or I will kill myself

We are saying NO.

You Do realise that one wrong word or action and you will be on the doxx/piss up your door list too!

Don't get too cocky they turn on all their allies eventually

PJ

Can humans change sex?

Well after a couple of millennia of "male-centred standards" we could certainly give it a red hot go and see what happens.

Or you know, we could have a society that's neither male centric or female centric.

Just a crazy idea coming from a so-called "prick" on these message boards.

Famous PJ, are you an Apple PR person? If so you are convincing me not to buy their products.

I am middle aged and slightly overweight. I do not want to share a changing room with someone who looks physically like a man. I would feel uncomfortable. I know I am not the only one. If Apple wish to deny me access to single sex toilets/changing facilities so be it. They are more powerful than me, and money talks. However I do not need their PR people lecturing me on what I feel comfortable with and what no

Do you people know that silicon valley tech companies in the heart of california have a reputation for having a heavy "liberal" bias? They're full of the type of men who boast about calling themselves feminists.

This policy from Apple, without a doubt, came from a group of men and women who call themselves feminists. It's funny, because I wonder what their reaction would be if they read this thread. Would they still call themselves feminists? Yeah, probably not.

No one hates a feminist more than a different kind of feminist it seems.

Well off you toddle and let them know then. It's clear no one here gives a toss what you have to say. You are rambling on in the usual angry adolescent way, as if it's some outrage that people don't intend on playing along with gender identity shite. It really isn't. Very few people really give a shit about trans rights. We give a shit about our right to privacy and honestly, your teenage wank here just reinforces why. You ignore the word no. That makes you an abuser.

So in society, are we going to start defining everything according to a female-centric standard?

Well after a couple of millennia of "male-centred standards" we could certainly give it a red hot go and see what happens.

In fact channel 4 pulled this appear and released an article that shown that actually in the uk trans was the safest status.

There have been leaks than ten deaths in the UK in the last decade. 2 Women a week however are murdered

... Can you do mathematics?

There's roughly 32 million women in the UK. 2 women a week is 104 a year, or 1040 a decade.

1040 out of 30 million is 0.00325% of women.

Assuming 1 in 500 people are transgender, and roughly 65 million people in the UK, then there are 130,000 transgender people in the UK.

Assuming half of those are transwomen (this may not be correct, but for the sake of argument) then there are 75,000 transwomen in the UK.

10 out of 75,000 is 0.01333%

0.01333% is a lot bigger than 0.00325%

Your own numbers suggest that the murder rate for transwomen is far higher than that for biological women. It's really not a good idea to use statistics that undermine your own argument, is it?

Famous PJ, are you an Apple PR person? If so you are convincing me not to buy their products.

I am middle aged and slightly overweight. I do not want to share a changing room with someone who looks physically like a man. I would feel uncomfortable. I know I am not the only one. If Apple wish to deny me access to single sex toilets/changing facilities so be it. They are more powerful than me, and money talks. However I do not need their PR people lecturing me on what I feel comfortable with and what not.

*This is a top down movement. It’s aimed at total removal of women’s ability to be private, to congregate and even to speak.

Actually, it's just regarding toilets, which are just for urination, menstruation, and defecation, and have absolutely nothing to do with congregating or speaking*

You obviously have never used an all female toilet with your female friends. Chatting is what we do in toilets.

So taking away our privacy to chat to our friends is a huge ask.

I wonder what would happen if women actually used the unisex toilets like we use the female toilets.

I think there would be a lot of men who would get annoyed for having to queue.

Men have far more maturity than this; we don't complain about seeing vaginas in our changing rooms because we aren't oversized children

I think someone needs a lesson in biology

It's simple yes.

If you dangle. Or have dangled. Use the men's.

Problem solved

I agree, which is why I want to protect women by allowing them to use the women's toilets and not force them to use the men's toilets.

Women already can use the women’s toilets.

You’re not implying humans can actually change sex are you, PJ?

The privacy and safety of women should not compromised (any further than it already is) because of the actions of men.

I agree, which is why I want to protect women by allowing them to use the women's toilets and not force them to use the men's toilets.

Women's space and non-women's / mixed space. Perfectly logical, maintains our protections and doesn't assume anyone's gender.

Had to reply to this one because it made me cringe.

"Women's space" and "non-women's space"? So in society, are we going to start defining everything according to a female-centric standard? But don't you lot complain when things are defined according to a male-centric standard? You know, the idea that men are "the norm" and women are "something else"?

Was your comment serious, or was it satire?

No it doesn't.

Yes it does. You said you support the idea of "women's spaces," which means you also support the idea of "men's spaces." (I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here and assuming your principles and attitudes are consistent for both genders; it would be ridiculous if you only supported the idea of "spaces" for one gender.) If you believe transwomen are invading women's spaces, it logically follows that transmen are an invasion of men's spaces. This is called "logic" and "reasoning."

But please don't reply back saying that I got it wrong, and you only support spaces and special treatment for women and no one else. I don't think your comments would ever become that silly.

On the contrary, transwomen are the victims of high levels of violence from men, far moreso than biological women. Good to see they have your sympathy.

Thing is PJ, that isn't true and even if it was, to be perfectly frank, it's not a problem for women to sort out. The privacy and safety of women should not compromised (any further than it already is) because of the actions of men.

On the contrary, transwomen are the victims of high levels of violence from men, far moreso than biological women

This is hyperbole, propaganda and completely untrue (unless you're discussing sex workers in third world countries who all, make female or trans have a high mortality rate at the hands of men).