Apple's billion dollar investment directed at allowing men into women's bathrooms

The tech industry is a cesspit of misogny and also has a disproportionate number of transwomen employees who are able to influence policy, hence stuff like this.

Aside - a lot of people seem to think of Apple as the kinder gentler tech company because Steve Jobs was good at PR. It's not, and on a personal level Jobs was not a nice man at all.

No, cross dressing men and men with gender dysphoria are women, doncha know?

Crack open some literature by a "gay rights" organization lately.

Lesbians are bigots if they prefer sex with vaginas these days too.

Pssst: if you want to verify the crime stats, do a crawl through the FBI website sometime. Me, I'm going to lunch.

Stonewall defines transgender as including cross-dressing - go and look at their definition.

And your points 1-3 (in the U.K.) are matters of record, backed up by official statistics. Educate yourself before you come here and try to educate us.

Cross-dressing and being transgender are completely different things.

What I'm fascinated by though, is that everyone here is universally arguing that;

1. Transwomen are more likely to kill than be killed.
2. Transwomen are not prone to any significant levels of violence.
3. A significant number of transwomen carry out sexual assaults against women and children.

I know mumsnet doesn't like transwomen, but I never expected such harsh perspectives. I wonder if any of "the other kind" of feminist has seen this board. Steam would be coming out their ears.

Bingo.

Transwomen are more likely to kill than be killed
^^ YY this is true in the UK and the USA.

Also, Cross dressing, AKA autogynephila, AKA being a "Transwoman" is the number one most common paraphilia amoungst sex offenders.
We are being gaslighted to accept cross-dressers as transwomen, and transwomen as real women by Stonewall and the entire liberal elite.

More than 40% of transwomen in prison are there for sex offences against women and children. They aren't women. They are autogynephiles.

I think you've missed the point. The number is smaller, but the rate is higher because the population of transwomen is smaller than the population of women

Was this your point?

Transwomen are safer than any other category of males, but they exhibit the same level of violence as other males.

Is that where the protection of wimminfolk happens?

When a woman is killed by her partner, it usually follows years of physical abuse. The next woman about to be murdered by her significant other, partner, husband, so, grandson has already been hospitalized or screamed quietly so the neighbors didn't hear.

And no one calls it a hate crime.

Whereas in the UK and in the USA NO transwomen were killed by their male partner last year or the before.

... Probably because people who want to inflict violence on transwomen... you know... aren't the sort of men who are going to want... to be in a relationship with them... to begin with...

Again, not our problem. Sort it out amongst yourselves, and until you do so, we will continue to put our energy into protecting girls and women from you as best we can.

Your energy is sorely misplaced. Banning transwomen from women's toilets won't reduce violence against women. Allowing them into the women's toilets won't increase it. You can direct your energy into far more useful and productive endeavors if you want to help women live safely; the campaign for more toilets in India would be a good place to start.

I think you've missed the point. The number is smaller, but the rate is higher because the population of transwomen is smaller than the population of women

So we've established that two women every single day are murdered by their male partner in the USA 2 a day, and in the UK two women a week are murdered by their male partner, 2 per week, roughly reflecting the countries populations.

Whereas in the UK and in the USA NO transwomen were killed by their male partner last year or the before. Jean Hatchet "riding for murdered women" was accused of transphobia because she literally couldn't find a transwoman to ride for in the UK. There were none.

Unless you're including South American and Asian sex workers, you are literally safer against being murdered as a white male who identifies as a woman, than any other group.

Low representation of women is OK if the firm boasts.

I didn't say that. I defended Apple's policies, and I said these companies tend to be full of snotty feminists, but I didn't say it's OK for them not to employ women.

Men are violent to men so this protects women.

Violence against women being taboo has a protective effect.

This bloke is happy to pretend men are women therefore everyone has to pretend to make this bloke even happier and do he can too boast about being a feminist.

I am proud to say that I am not a feminist.

The global epidemic of violent deaths of trans people is so vast it outnumbers the amount of trans people that exist tenfold.

Logically, this doesn't hold. The number of deaths of trans people can't exceed the number of trans people there are to begin with. But death rates among trans people are extremely high.

Bubonic you missed violence against women and girls is taboo and this is proved by the fact that although men kill and assault women in alarmingly high numbers, they kill men even more.

if you are bothered about seeing a penis,then I think the problem is with you

I agree, you are not a feminist FPJ. This is the FWR forum so you seem to have taken a wrong turn. Mind the door on your way out.

Tech is based in the US. It's not 2 a week there. It's 2 a day.

Men commit violence against other men, true.

Transwomen are more likely to kill than be killed. Women are more likely to be killed.

Transwomen are men, so that whole men kill men fits, but not the way you claim.

as awful as that number is, it pales in comparison to what men do to each other

Again, not our problem. Sort it out amongst yourselves, and until you do so, we will continue to put our energy into protecting girls and women from you as best we can.

So are we following the logic? Low representation of women is OK if the firm boasts.

Men are violent to men so this protects women.

This bloke is happy to pretend men are women therefore everyone has to pretend to make this bloke even happier and do he can too boast about being a feminist.

The global epidemic of violent deaths of trans people is so vast it outnumbers the amount of trans people that exist tenfold.

LOL. Why are 2 women killed a week by their partners

As I already explained, and as awful as that number is, it pales in comparison to what men do to each other. I don't know exactly how many men die at the hands of other men in the US, but I do know it's a lot higher than the number of women killed by men.

IF tech dudes call themselves "feminist" because it's the politics de jour. MeToo scored early at Google, so PR plays a role.

Possibly yes. But basically, this thread has been a good summary of why I'm not a feminist. No matter how feminist men try to be, there will be another group of feminists somewhere else, ready to tear into them and call them raging sexists.

If they had announced that transwomen would be barred from the women's toilets, no doubt women wearing pussy hats would have taken to the streets in the US and called them racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic Trump supporters.

Personally, I just take each issue as it is. I think allowing transwomen to use women's toilets is the most sensible and reasonable course of action.

violence against women and children is taboo.

LOL. Why are 2 women killed a week by their partners and something like 1 in 4 experience domestic violence. Mein just don't like to be seen hitting women and children, it's not the same thing.

No, they don’t. They have a reputation for being libertarians, for practicing age and sex discrimination, for elitism, and for cruelty to their gig workers.

Do you read any material outside of mumsnet? All I hear and see is major tech companies and corporations boasting about how feminist they can be, and trying to out-feminist each other. This move, without a shadow of a doubt, is an attempt to appeal to feminism and LGBT people. Conversely, if you read material written by MRAs and the alt-right, you will be aware that they hate trans people and want to keep them out of women's toilets (it's one of many, many areas where myself and MRAs disagree).

Being a woman actually has a protective effect against male violence

2 women die every single day in the US at the hands of a male partner.

Two. Women. Every. Single. Day.

IF tech dudes call themselves "feminist" because it's the politics de jour. MeToo scored early at Google, so PR plays a role.

They're libertarians for the most part, prone to shaggy beards, baggy jeans, and quite often, whatever substance they can find.

And they hire 3 males to every 1 female. Worst sex ratio around.

It matters when the sex They are is responsible for the vast majority of sexual crimes against the sex They claim to be. And the rate of criminality doesn t decrease wearing a dress or they'd hand them out in court to replace the ankle tag
.
Men whatever they suffer from or think they are need to stay out of women's spaces

That's just the most lovely idea PJ, but men as a sex class are violent and women as a sex class are overwhelmingly vulnerable to such violence, so until the menz can sort themselves out women need sex based protections.

Incorrect. The overwhelming majority of victims of male violence are... other men. Being a woman actually has a protective effect against male violence in that regard. Which is, of course, what's expected as violence against women and children is taboo.

Can humans change sex?

This question came up a few times. It's irrelevant and an argument purely of semantics. The facts are, 1. some people have gender dysphoria, 2. allowing them to live as their preferred gender is the best course of action. Whether or not they have technically changed sex doesn't matter to me and it shouldn't matter to anyone else.