Apple's billion dollar investment directed at allowing men into women's bathrooms

This is beyond parody now.

Rubbish rubbish rubbish.

For the millionth time, a law which prohibits transwomen from entering women's toilets is not going to stop a sex offender from entering the women's toilets

Then why do 90% of attacks on women in public loos occur in mixed sex facilities? I believe someone posted the evidence upthread.

I always wonder if any budding Bunbury's laugh when Alex introduces himself to the schoolchildren he's addressing as a lesbian.

Straight tech seems to be a special, woman hating hell.

Yep. The tendency of both the press and junior people in the industry to treat successful tech dudes like rock stars doesn't help either.

Alex Drummond member of influential Stonewall Trans Advisory Group, "widening the bandwidth" of what it means to be a woman and lesbian.

Alex speaks in schools.

Magdalen Berns comments:
'What Kind Of Fools Do Transgender UK and Stonewall Take Us For?'

Tech is an issue. I’m in STEM and I’ve heard and seen some fairly depressing stuff. My current place is good (clinical/medical research) and I think a lot of that is because you need a significant degree of people skills to do my job and allied ones along with the scientific know how. That tends to weed out the dross to a degree. Clients don’t want assholes who alienate half the workforce, they want people who can get a couple of hundred people working together well.

Academia was dreadful. Straight tech seems to be a special, woman hating hell.

Ah, bubonic, but if a statistic upsets you then is it really real? If you cover your eyes does the thing you can't see any more cease to exist?

I remember this stage too. He walked into a few walls before he learned not to do that.

For the millionth time, a law which prohibits transwomen from entering women's toilets is not going to stop a sex offender from entering the women's toilets. If someone is already intent on breaking the law, slapping another law on top of that isn't going to stop them!

Currently if there is a man in the women's toilets then women can challenge them and/or call the authorities. Under new proposals if women feel uncomfortable we are in the wrong and could be committing a hate crime.

Laughing at the post saying there are no statistics right under the post linking to a statistical survey. There are at least two more links in this thread.

If you don't want to see it, it does not exist.

I think we're talking semantics mate.

Stonewall's definition: TRANS
An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.

They want all of these people to access the spaces of their choice. Many women were okay with the old school transsexuals using women's spaces, some weren't, but the demands now are for any bloke who says so to enter.

People desperately trying to bait me mostly amuse me at this point, honestly. Reminds me of when my nephew was a toddler (he has since thankfully grown out of the attention seeking and tantrumming stage and is lovely now).

But for other trans people surgery isn’t something they want. Being trans isn’t about having (or not having) particular body parts. It’s something that’s absolutely core to a trans person’s identity and doesn’t alter - whatever outward appearances might be.

From BMJ recently:
Published 29 October 2018
'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
authors: Richard Byng, general practitioner and professor in primary care research, Susan Bewley, emeritus professor of obstetrics and women’s health, Damian Clifford, consultant liaison psychiatrist, Margaret McCartney, general practitioner and freelance writer
(extracts)
"A recent feature in The BMJ implied that new services are all that’s needed to improve transgender healthcare. Providing timely, sensitive services for all, including those who decide to not pursue treatment or detransition, is important. But the article did not question the steep rise in referrals of mainly young women or the potential harms of medical overdiagnosis and overtreatment" (continues)

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490.full?ijkey=6lX93kQA0lz5YoB&keytype=ref

thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles

We have, yes AAK. But for those of us parked under a baby watching random documentaries on the history of tanks, it’s little enough hassle.

And the lurkers - they read. They know. They see men telling us we can’t have women’s loos, or be safe in prisons, and all the other shit. Lots of those women have experienced Male violence.
And then they write to their MP, and talk to other women, and thus the word spreads ^have you heard about this self ID thing? No, what’s that?... don’t be daft that couldn’t ... what? They let who into a women’s prison..? Ffs...’

Carry on, Pj you’re doing sterling work. Tell us how we are silly, and wrong. And hateful

So yeah, anyway, our holy mother of the Bunbury would suggest talking around the angry attempts at derailment at this point. The tech industry is problematic for women in all kinds of ways, so let's talk about that.

(Especially if we have any MNers who work in it and thus might welcome a bit of support.)

Study says that all perpetrators are men, so transwomen aren't to blame. Men wouldn't be allowed in women's toilets if you allow transwomen in

How are we supposed to tell the difference between a man who identifies as a woman and a man who says they identify as a woman, exactly?

What about this trans woman, should we let them in?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life