DM: I believe I'm proof no man can truly become a woman

Not sure singling out Leanne's mum's friends (who apparently had heard Mavis talk only about her son Lee) is altogether fair.
Grief at funerals has a profound effect on reactions and perceptions

Absolutely.
Still though, it’s a funeral. You suck it up and force politeness for a couple of hours and then process it however you like in private.

Losing your mum is a life changing moment for almost everyone - you can disapprove of a person’s lifestyle as much as you like, but I still would expect considerable empathy in that exact moment.

I’m aware that I’m making my ‘fuck you’ judgement based on a second/third hand story, however (and admit, I might be prejudiced against line-dancers 😂) so I would be prepared to revisit my opinion in light of more evidence.

Based on the Mail’s interpretation of Leanne’s version events, I stand by my comment!

Certainly seems to be.
Jackie to Steven , Manchester Poly , self-confident sort, all points at Professor Whittle.
Correct me if Im wrong

Yes, that was what I thought about the funeral too. Difficult time to process anything unexpected.

My thought at the funeral was that Leanne's mum had kept the whole thing secret and her mates may have misread Leanne's appearance as an inappropriate time to 'come out'. In their heads they expected to see a male presenting bloke, so for all they knew, Leanne may have just started recently cross dressing.
It would be a tough time to process it - at a funeral. So sad that Leanne didn't have anyone- siblings, aunts or uncles to help prepare it.

Is that Mr Whittle in the 1980 video?

Fuck those line dancers!

It was clearly a very a complex, difficult and saddening family dynamic.

Not sure singling out Leanne's mum's friends (who apparently had heard Mavis talk only about her son Lee) is altogether fair.
Grief at funerals has a profound effect on reactions and perceptions.

The most important thing is that Leanne and her Mum were reconciled before her death.

I hope Leanne finds a way to use the courage she found to do this interview to carry on making connections with others.
As others have said there are lots of supportive opportunities and many ways to live well.

I'm curious as to how Leanne came to be in the TV documentary?
(extract)
"At 19, having moved away from home and living on benefits in a friend’s flat in Birmingham, she was chosen to star in a groundbreaking TV film called What Am I?, which explored the then new phenomenon of transsexualism. It was aired again recently and, by chance, she saw it.

The film, made in 1980, shows her experimenting with wearing skirts bought from a charity shop, and walking elegantly down the street in a woman’s mac and high heels.

Tall, wafer-thin and pretty, with long hair, she talks about her hopes for the future. She is also filmed with a doctor, discussing her chances of getting sex reassignment surgery and her plans to live the rest of her life as a woman."

^& have to note some of the rather florid descriptions by the journalist"

Sunkisses

Ooh, thanks! I did a quick search for it and instead came across an American film from the same time period - m.youtube.com/watch?v=rnpCaWKEEVE

I haven’t watched it all yet but there is a heartbreaking story from a detransitioned man who has had inappropriate, traumatic SRS.

A cautionary tale of insufficient gatekeeping and internalised homophobia, from 40 years ago.

@R0wantrees, I looked up the 1980 documentary referred to in the article, What Am I? Absolutely fascinating. Really interesting to notice the change in the language since then, and the dogma of today. Some of the male transsexuals on there referred to themselves as male, or "he" and there was none of this modern dogma that "transwomen are women" that trans activists are futilely trying to make people repeat/believe nowadays. This insistence that we must repeat a lie is the absolute crux of all the tensions now, I believe. I know transsexuals exist, I have been friends with one for 20 years, and I feel enormous sympathy for those who cannot reconcile themselves to their biological sex, but I do not and will not believe people can change sex
player.bfi.org.uk/free/film/watch-what-am-i-1980-online

Fuck those line dancers!

Absolutely! There is just not enough support out there for people who do not fit in, if they are not causing problems. There are also some lovely people out there who run clubs and societies and care about people who need supporting too as they bring people together.

I read on the other thread that Leanne had problems getting this piece out there. It is totally worth reading, has chimed with a lot of people out there, so I hope it has been worth the hiccups and that there is more to come.

Some insight into 1970's perspectives/ portrayals from a previous thread

OP Sunkisses wrote about BBC 'Open Door' program on transsexualism:
"I did a search of Mumsnet and couldn't see any other posts about this extraordinary 1973 discussion show which was produced by transsexuals 45 years ago where they were given free-reign, free from editorial control. Four transsexuals are joined by a psychologist and an MP.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p06c83f4/player

Where to start? Maybe with the show's producer and host, Della Aleksander, who is the most bizarre of all the participants. Della starts by claiming that a "chastened and wiser" Adolf Hitler and Queen Victoria have said, through a medium, that "there was a special role for me, in the reconstruction following a world wide collapse in 1978-79". Della also claims to have been sent from another world where the sexes don't exist and that transsexuals are the only model of a "higher race"! Della also claims to have founded the neo-Nazi sounding European National Movement in South Africa whilst serving in the Army there (I couldn't find any info on them, but they sound well dodgy to me).

Della also seems utterly confused, mis-using the terms 'bisexual' and 'intersex', and appearing to think these words mean transsexual, and that the appearance of nipples on a man means 'we are all transsexuals'. Della is, thankfully, corrected by the psychologist at 33.53 mins in who states that it is important to use the correct terminology, but Della wafts such trivialities away by saying "I don't want to get bogged down in medical questions". The MP, Leo Abse, argues against the 'trans umbrella' (before this term was invented by Stonewall etc) at 36 mins in.

There is clear evidence of autogynephilia (AGP - the sexual fetish of a man loving himself as a woman) at 33.23 when Della says the "sex act" is a "transsexual one", as "one attempts to become and absorb the beloved".

At 26 mins in one of the speakers, Rachel Bowen (the working class northern transsexual with dark hair), says that having a female birth certificate is a "status symbol". Another of the transsexuals, Laura Pralet, at 27 mins preposterously claims that "we are not a minority", and "I have never been a homosexual", even though Laura lives with and has married a man. Laura also says their husband is never happier when they are "in the kitchen", and at 31 mins in says they wanted to become a woman as "women have the best deal anyway".

It's absolutely fascinating and well worth a watch."

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3327193-BBC-Open-Door-programme-45-years-ago-on-transsexuals-a-real-jaw-dropper

Fuck those line dancers!

Best wishes Leanne.
Thanks for trying to show gender questioning young people the bigger picture.

This is what I've been saying for ages. Unfortunately even being trans is a sad and lonely situation because the person is uncomfortable in their own skin and wants something that they can't actually have.

They aren't being sold a dream. This is the reality.
It's just 'trendy to be trans' as the article says.
Such a shame.

I had minor plastic surgery. Before hand I had to have my mental health checked and my reason for wanting the surgery. They needed to explained that the change was purely cosmetic and would not make any difference to my life or create any profound changes. It can only boost confidence its not a magic wand to fix all issues.

SRS seems to be sold as a magic wand to fix your life though. Don't fit in, unhappy with your life, upbringing, sexuality, lack of friends - get srs and all will be right.

As with all cosmetic surgery we should be making clear to SRS patients that the changes are cosmetic nothing more. It won't change your life and won't make you happy, only you can make yourself happy from within.

I agree, Rebecca, it really highlights how important it is to stop this appalling trend of transing children. Kudos to Leanne for speaking up like this. It's a dreadfully sad story and I hope she gets some comfort from the thought that it may help some confused young person.

Sad. As a feminine gay man Leanne would probably have had a better life. Young people considering gender transition don't think enough about future sexual partners. If they are on puberty blockers to eliminate the sexual desires of puberty they probably don't feel this is important. I think everyone should have to go through puberty before making life changing decisions like this and even then as Leanne shows they can make the wrong decision.

I wonder if Leanne may have an undiagnosed ASC - being bright, but not bring able to actualise this ability - there's some social naivety going on too isn't there? Leanne didn't have SRS until mid thirties - it's rare to be a virgin at that age.

I really hope that people like Leanne can access proper support - not just with dysphoria, but lifeskills and making more fruitful choices - as someone said up thread joining a women only gym or the WI seems a bit doomed. Socialising should not be about seeking validation - there is give and take and shared interests.

Very brave of Leanne to tell her story so honestly, I hope she can start to socialise more, and make some friends.
As for TRAs trying to stop the interview being published....the cats well out of the bag-we know the ideology is flawed that’s why we want it out of our schools and away from children.

I’m not a reader of the DM usually, but that was a reasonable article. I feel a lot of compassion for for Leanne. I really hope she can find happiness.

Leanne is probably happier than if she hadn't transitioned ; but transitioning wasn't a magic bullet that resolved all her issues

I can’t help thinking that if Leanne had had the chance to live life as a gay man, she might not now be so isolated and might even be married or have a partner? The problem is that straight men like women, and gay men on the whole like men who identify as men, so the pool of potential partners for Leanne is already narrowed, and that’s before we start adding in things like personality and appearance.
Also it must be hard to go through life feeling you are pretending to be something you’re not, and that society in general wouldn’t accept you if they knew the real you.
I feel so sorry for her, she seems like a nice and intelligent person and probably would have a lot to offer to society/the world of work/children/partners, but she’s been sold a lie and therefore not been able to properly and fully live her life.

That is a really sad article and I feel for them. That is horrific the way people shunned them. As others have said it sounds as if self acceptance helps a bit - I can't help wondering what their life would have been like if they hadn't had surgery, and instead had counselling to help them accept themselves, and help them being comfortable being a feminine man.

Very brave of them to tell their story in this this way.

Leanne, the transsexual in the article, has joined the end of this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3445694-Letter-in-the-Times-Plea-To-The-Trans-Lobby-from-group-of-transsexuals?pg=1&order=

Apparently the Mail came under much pressure from TRAs not to publish the interview.

Important to hear Leanne's views and interesting to read the comments that are (with a few exceptions) thoughtful, supportive and mainly gender critical.

Very sad to hear about her personal journey and I suspect that it is a far more common one than the aggressive shouters would ever allow to be acknowledged. I also read on another thread where Leanne herself was posting that TRAs tried to intervene and get the DM to censor her story?

Leanne is probably happier than if she hadn't transitioned ; but transitioning wasn't a magic bullet that resolved all her issues.

What struck me was Leanne's description of a twilight world, not wanting her old life yet not finding acceptance amongst women either. Very sad.