Open Letter to The IOC regarding transwoman Tiffany Abreu

Materialist emails sent to IOC and BAC.

Ereshkigal There and here I emphasise the importance of distinguishing sex and gender. No more discussion on this here.

My interest in this is indirect, but personal.

How does this gel with your "what is a woman anyway" nonsense as per the "Alternative Definition of Woman" thread?

Ereshkigal First misreading, the shouting, then deflection and avoiding the question.I think it's you who are not discussing this in good faith.

The conflation of sex and gender is a poison. I think it's vital in law to differentiate between sex and gender, and you are right, it's been slipped through without debate. I oppose it.

My interest in this is indirect, but personal. My niece was a keen footballer at primary school, and when she went to her secondary school, only boys were permitted to play football. I think this is horribly unfair, but my attempt address their policy fell on deaf ears, because they were legally permitted to do it and "the demand wasn't there." My BiL is an old-school sexist, and didn't care one way or another. So, I am very keen for girls and women to have equal access to sports. Women's football has made great strides towards recognition, but I think the end of sex segregation will undermine all of this.

THe issue is the power play going on in the redefinition of “woman” to mean something other than “adult human female.”

It’s a sly way of changing a lot of policy, regulations etc. without actually going through procedures to do so.

And it’s being driven by men.

This. Men like Dadjoke, as well as more obviously misogynistic male people. All adult human males, i.e. men.

I do however remember many many foolish posts you made on a thread entitled "Definition of a Woman" along with other Friends of Pomo. So you've picked the wrong woman.

lol Dadjoke you just keep making these amusing mistakes. As for your lack of argument, I no longer think you are posting in good faith.

Sorry TWAM

Ereshkigal Can you show me where I have referred to gender in my letter? I haven't. I've said sport should be segregated by sex because otherwise transwomen will take over women's sports. Do you disagree?

Really, if you could address what I actually said rather than these strawmen you keep building, we might get somewhere. Look at the argument I presented in my letter and tell me at what point you disagree.

I think you just won't be happy unless I add PS TWAW!

Of course I regard sex and gender differently. Is there anyone here who doesn't? They are different things.

IF THEY ACTUALLY WERE WOMEN THERE WOULD BE NO BASIS WHATSOEVER FOR EXCLUDING THEM FROM WOMEN'S SPORTING COMPETITIONS. THERE IS A BASIS ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT.

Do caps help you grasp the point?

You have said that you regard sex and gender differently, and that there is a category error.

As you can see from other people's posts, it's not just me who thinks the distinction is spurious.

Erishkigal I read your original reply. I am not saying transwomen are women, so you are not paraphrasing my argument, just attacking a strawman. Show me where I am saying that transwomen are women, or even implying it.

Dadjoke, I'll repost my reply which makes it perfectly clear why your reasoning doesn't make sense:

If they actually were women there would be no basis for excluding a particular group of women for physical reasons. However, they aren't women. So there is. That is the basis.

Ereshkigal

Stop me where my reasoning doesn't make sense:

Some people are born male, others born female.
People born male have an advantage in many sports over people born female.
Unless we want to effectively exclude people born female from the top levels of sport, we need to segregate sport by sex, or they will be dominated by transwomen.
Therefore transwomen should be excluded from the women's sports category.

@InfiniteSheldon,
I am not sure if the mysogyny and mansplaining comments were aimed at me because I am a bloke, but I can only say that I have been supplying information that I feel would be helpful.
I am genuinely concerned by this situation, because I think that it has the potential to destroy women's sport.
Why have no notable sportswomen come forward to comment on this? It seems as though Martina no longer wishes to be involved in this debate, so I can only surmise that it is because she is no longer competing and it no longer affects her.

If they actually were women there would be no basis for excluding a particular group of women for physical reasons. However, they aren't women. So there is. That is the basis.

Your version of my letter implies I don't think there is a difference between people born male and people born female, when in fact that was the whole point of it.

The point that I illustrated with my version is that your reasoning makes no sense. MTF trans people are male and an adult male is a man. By saying that there are sex differences you are saying that they aren't women. Most of the world doesn't subscribe to your pomo separation of male from "man". What about this is proving so difficult to grasp?

It's always interesting when men tip up on here and mansplain and/or dominate threads.

There's one that appears regularly to tell us how hard done by men are.

Another thread lost to misogyny and mansplaining

@AngryAttackKittens

British Cycling, British Athletes Commission

www.britishathletes.org/

Football Association

www.thefa.com/

British Cycling refused to discuss the matter with me.

AngryAttackKittens fair enough.

I'm still hoping someone might have ideas as to where best to send such a letter (whatever the approach). Any ideas?

I think "leave it" is the collective consensus.

Ereshkigal I was intending to write the letter I suggested from me, it's up thread. It emphasises the biological differences between people born male and people born female. It does not deny the reality of sex differences - in fact quite the opposite. It just doesn't say "TWAM."

The other letter I wrote I was a précis of the letter mumsnet might send, and I hoped to make it obvious that, true or not, it would fall on deaf ears.

Your version of my letter implies I don't think there is a difference between people born male and people born female, when in fact that was the whole point of it.

I absolutely support any efforts to stop the damage to women's sports, and I urge anyone to write any letter they like in the hope of making a change. I was suggesting a course which I believe is more likely to affect change, and you can take it or leave it.

Dear IOC

TWAW. Obvs. But I don't think they should compete in the women's category because for some unknown reason they tend to be stronger and bigger than most other women.

Yours

DadJoke

Just to recap.