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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Men and creepy banter.

59 replies

TheMatriarch · 13/12/2018 10:20

16 yr old dd works in a local pub. We live in a rural village, have know many of the locals for years.
The pub is mainly used by men, aged 35 -70.
She will overhear comments about her bottom and looks etc, her friend gets constant comments about her boobs. This is often from the older customers, fine upstanding members of the community.
It’s all seen as a bit of a lark, harmless fun for men winding down from a day at work.

Dd thinks this is a village thing.
I suspect it’s a nationwide thing, possibly even worldwide, but the comments are creepier because they’re coming from older men who’ve known her from when she was a baby. Comments and looks from strangers in a large town are more easily dismissed and ignored.

OP posts:
PebbleDashed · 13/12/2018 21:32

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Bluebellsarebells · 13/12/2018 21:27

Not all pubs are like this, I work in a bar as a second job.
Its 90% men, if not more.
It can be quite intimidating as the only woman in a place with lots of men, especially when alcohol is involved.
On my first shift there was a man getting louder and more obnoxious, he did make a comment towards me and I ignored him, he then went on to touch one of the four women customers on the bum as he walked past.
Landlord made him apologise to the lady then chucked him out, before assuring me they don't tolerate behavior like that. It made me feel a lot more safe.
I'm mid 30s, I can deal with embarrassing attempts at flirting and too personal questions.
Anything more than that my boss would deal with it.
Your dds landlord needs to deal with it. There is no way she should be having to listen to it.

Brysonette · 13/12/2018 21:02

I worked in a pub 20 years ago when I was 18 and the landlord nipped all this crap in the bud. Any comments like that towards me and they could be expected to ejected from the pub immediately. I certainly felt in a safe working environment despite it being a rough London pub.
No one should have to put up with this crap and I'm sorry your dd has to.

FlyingOink · 13/12/2018 19:44

Blokes like that don't care that she's 16. They don't care if she's 13. It's a "bit edgy", yeah, but they'd all shag a 14, 15 year old if they could. Men only say they'd "never do such a thing, omg we'd have nothing in common, maybe five years younger than me but that's it" in front of women they are afraid of.
Men say some horrific things when they are with other men. And they invariably mean it.
Trying to find a job at 16 is tough, OP's daughter probably won't find another job to walk into. So I can see why she'd want to stick it out.

Ereshkigal · 13/12/2018 19:16

Both my DD's work in a busy pub. Checking loos is part of the job. I am incensed that men cheerily use the urinal in front of them (Don't mind me is the nearest to an apology let alone restraint). They roll their eyes. I still think it's very bad in front of teen girls.

This regularly happened to me in a cleaning job I had when I was 14.

Micke · 13/12/2018 19:08

I'm in my 40s, boys at my school went for a full boob grab as you walked down the corridor if you were on the larger side.. It was so common, it didn't even occur to me to report it, I was so embarrassed.

More than one pub I worked in, it was well known that none of the male staff would leave a female member of staff alone with the landlord, because getting out with a groping would be the least of it - and again, it was just kinda shrugged off - it never got reported to the police.

I remember just turning 16, and at a family party, and the host (40s at the time I'd guess) asking me if I'd ever tangled with a moustache, demanding a kiss, then being very pleased with himself because my parents were in the same room, I assumed this was normal behaviour and gave him a kiss.

We're groomed continuously, and it's not acceptable, and as adults, we need to step in and make sure our kids know it's not acceptable.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 13/12/2018 18:36

In what universe is this acceptable?

Both male and female cleaners operate in this area.
I've seen that quite commonly in service stations, along with female cleaners wandering in and out of the men's.
I assume they don't all stop peeing when she goes in.

Jaxhog · 13/12/2018 16:38

Using the urinals in front of young women

In what universe is this acceptable? I once used a unisex loo and came out of the cubicle to find someone using the urinal (I'd thought it was a wash basin).

Girlofgold · 13/12/2018 15:23

That's not a criticism of you op- just thinking aloud.

Girlofgold · 13/12/2018 15:22

As her mum I would think I would speak to the landlord or head of pub chain if no joy there.

HestiaParthenos · 13/12/2018 14:46

If I was your DD I'd resign and tell the landlord why.

This.

I wouldn't want to work in a place where any man would dare behave like this - but even less would I want to work in a place where I know my employer doesn't care!

When will he start caring? When they touch her? When they rape her?

I hope your 16 year old daughter doesn't have to work for a living, so resigning should be rather easy, shouldn't it?

deydododatdodontdeydo · 13/12/2018 12:24

They know it's not acceptable in this day and age (sad that it was ever!), but they do it because they can get away with it.
Their peers don't police their actions and the landlord/lady doesn't.
It shouldn't be up to your DD - it's a workplace after all!
I like a traditional pub, but avoid places like like the plague. There are plenty of decent, friendly pubs not dominated by lecherous old men.
If I was your DD I'd resign and tell the landlord why.

Wordthe · 13/12/2018 11:49

Using the urinals in front of young women😒
it's a way of softening them up so that they will be receptive to the advances of other men isn't it 😔

Iused2BanOptimist · 13/12/2018 11:46

Both my DD's work in a busy pub. Checking loos is part of the job. I am incensed that men cheerily use the urinal in front of them (Don't mind me is the nearest to an apology let alone restraint). They roll their eyes. I still think it's very bad in front of teen girls.

SimplySteve · 13/12/2018 11:36

Having discussed with my brother on what women think are creeps we realised he thought these were the popular guys and felt out of sorts for not being like that.

I'm in my 40s too. This highlights exactly what things were like when I went through school. For not "being like that" and being different it was usual to be bullied, punched, kicked, and teachers did fuck all.

Jaxhog · 13/12/2018 11:29

The landlady threw out a very regular customer for behaving like that towards me.

The key here is 'landlady' rather than 'landlord'. He's part of the problem. It's disgusting that this STILL goes on. I thought we'd left this behind 30 years a go.

My only suggestion is for her to wear shapeless clothing or work somewhere else.

Wordthe · 13/12/2018 11:19

Attackkittens you've reminded me that when I was in my 20s I worked as a cleaner for a couple and the man started trying to chat me up and make suggestions
I was totally bemused by this, it seemed a ludicrous idea that a young woman like me would be interested in this much older and married man
so I told his wife

She was very apologetic and said oh no not this again, he was all 'what??? you told my wife???' I think I just sort of laughed at him and shrugged

I suppose he just assumed that I would feel embarrassed and as if I had 'asked for it' in some way and that would stop me from ratting him out?

Wordthe · 13/12/2018 11:11

I think calling it out with 'what did you just say'?
is a good strategy

AngryAttackKittens · 13/12/2018 11:06

When a man who worked with my dad tried this shit on me when I was 13 (...) and I quickly figured out that my being pissed off didn't put him off in the slightest I told him that if he didn't knock it off I'd tell his wife. That stopped it immediately. Might be worth a try.

Not that DD should have to threaten the blokes to make them behave, creepy old gits that they are. Maybe we need to train them via a shock collar around the ballsack that delivers a shock every time they attempt "banter", if they're determined to pretend that they have less sense of appropriate behavior than most dogs.

(Watch that get screenshotted as an example of feminists being eeevil.)

Knittink · 13/12/2018 11:00

It's disgusting. The managers should do something about it. I worked as a barmaid in my holidays when I was a student 30 years ago. The landlady threw out a very regular customer for behaving like that towards me.

TheMatriarch · 13/12/2018 10:59

Everard - ugh! Xmas Angry

OP posts:
TheMatriarch · 13/12/2018 10:56

I’d like to think not in my domain either, but as I hear the names of the wonderful family men, salt of the earth, respectful members of the community talking to their mates about there being “more than a handful there” about a 16 yr old girl, it makes me wonder.
My boys hear about stuff like this from me and dd, so I would hope that they know never to behave like this.

OP posts:
BlingLoving · 13/12/2018 10:52

I foresee arguments between me and schools in the future. Luckily, DC sjunior school so far is pretty good in terms of behaviour, but I have noticed a few assumptions that I suspect I'll be commenting on at various times in the future. But in high school, I won't be that parent who accepts "boys will be boys". I'm dreading it. But I don't get the sense it's really getting better....

Girlofgold · 13/12/2018 10:50

Hmmm. Not amongst the men in my domain. However, my FIL friends included a few of these characters and I think growing up there was one or two creeps in a group, the few that liked it and joined in but wouldn't instigate and then the reasonable guys that didn't say shit like that. Having discussed with my brother on what women think are creeps we realised he thought these were the popular guys and felt out of sorts for not being like that. So called fucking "banter". Were in our 40s.

I hope creeps are becoming few and further between.

EverardDigby · 13/12/2018 10:49

My DD says no bra pinging any more, I said "that's great!" She said "they ask us for blow jobs in the corridors". Oh.