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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why my transgender son dosent want self ID

258 replies

justanothetnamechange · 10/12/2018 21:16

HI all, so I've been wanting to make this post for a while but I hire honest Ive been scared to but tonight I'm going for it.
I'm a regular user but have obviously name changed for this.
So I frequent this board often but have never posted before, I am very much for women's rights- as many of us are!! My world turned upside down 6 years ago when my son started having conversations with with us reguarding his gender identity, tbh to begin with I constantly shot him down, but realised that there was no harm in changing his prounouns and name if that what makes him comfortable, although this choice toke a couple years and a lot of arguments! We didn't rush into anything, at school he used disabled toilets and he didn't do PE anyway as it was extra catch up. But wasn't going to do medication at this stage- he could make this choice as an adult if that's what he wanted. He went under CAMHS. That brings us to 2018 he is know 18 years old so it's all very much his choice. He is soon to be assed for testosterone.
I don't want this post to be to much about his journey and please don't go on about how he will never be biologically a man, he knows this he is a proud trans man. This is how self ID would ruin that.
it brings another side of the argument that people might not have always thought about.
My son has gone through a lot of challenges and mile stones to be where he is today they have been emotional.
He feels self ID would take away these milestones.
He recently got his passport through saying male, to do this we had to get two doctors reports and a MH report and proth he was living as his gender. When it came through he cried, celebrated and went for a drink. Wink
He was recently allowed to play for a male football team to do this he needed club approval, a doctors report party and proth he was going to medically transition. He needed to be present for a pane. He just played his first game it was celebrated and a good game to watch.
He works as a man and is treated as a man. But it took a lot of battles.
He is soon to apply for a GRC something he feels is the final step for social transition.
But when he tells people he is transgender he feels people accept him more when he says he's had to go through this. He feels genuine. He under stands sex segregation and respects men's boundary's. He only changes in the male changing room at football for example because they had a meeting about it and everyone said it was fine and even then he come in at the end when everyone's changed to take part in the talks etc.
He doesn't like the idea that someone could say I'm trans one day and get all the rights he's fort for. He doesn't like the idea that people who don't understand transition will come into sex segregated spaces. He doesn't like that he won't feel his long struggles will be looked on in the same way as they were before. This one may sound Selfish- He Dosent like that already stressed resources will become even more stressed as boundary's to be accepted will weaken. He wants to be accepted and knows he won't by everyone but in his opinion it happens more when he has that M in his passport and plus for his local team and when everyone can do this it's not as real. His struggles aren't as real. His battles aren't as real. His tears aren't as real. He feels even more invalidated. when he was 17 we talked about the GRC and he said how happy he'd feel when it came through and how he would have a weight lifted from his shoulders know someone wants to take away from this.
I hope this was right to post and makes sense!!
If anyone has any questions my son and me are happy to try and answer them.
I'm going to go put my hard hat on and hide in a corner just in case!

OP posts:
Truckingonandon · 11/12/2018 08:02

Forgot to add, whichever way you slice it, your science comment is most odd and pretty telling tbh.

Truckingonandon · 11/12/2018 08:01

Radical feminism doesn't promote negativity about being female. How on earth do you come up with that conclusion?

Op - how did she prove to the panel that she was living as a boy/man?

Sorry to be a bit base in this question but when you say she uses the male changing rooms at football, does she actually use them like the guys in there? Getting changed, showers etc?

GeorgeFayne · 11/12/2018 08:01

Any chance your child might just be comfortable being a super butch lesbian? Have either of you watched any of Peach Yogurt's videos? She is about as gender nonconforming as they come, but rejects the idea that women must become men to express more "masculine" traits.

Also, to echo a previous post, women typically cannot just take testosterone (at cross sex doses) casually for a prolonged time without eventually needing a hysterectomy and/or oophorectomy. There is significant atrophy of the uterus and vagina, can be constant pain, (and/or bleeding), painful ovarian cysts, in addition to increased risk of malignancy. Most trans-health experts recommend surgery after 3-5 years on T.

Branleuse · 11/12/2018 07:43

Someone i know was prescribed testosterone for endometriosis. She said it was brilliant, felt stronger and really into sex and food.

Hardly seems surprising women are going to feel good on it and it feel like an answer

JellySlice · 11/12/2018 07:41

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iLevictoiChete · 11/12/2018 06:39

@justanothetnamechange He never wants to go down the surgery route hormones for him are a happy medium.

you both need to do a lot more reading before any testosterone gets prescribed. the long term effects of testosterone on female biology make eventual surgery almost certain. FTM transitioners who don't have bottom surgery but take T will gradually start experiencing an ever increasing amount of pain which will eventually become unbearable and the only cure will be hysterectomy. I was reading a thread about it yesterday. loads of trans men saying they were getting these unbearable pains and hadn't realised it wasn't just them. this is gradually becoming a known side-effect. the reason transitioners haven't been warned about it is that no proper clinical tests have been carried out to even establish whether testosterone for a female-bodied person with dysphoria is even a safe and effective treatment, so clinicians don't even know what all the potential side-effects are.

BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 01:46

But your daughter needs you to respond to her as a girl who is growing to be a woman. Biology is fact.

What she chooses to do with her personality is purely her decision. But the salient point is that if she has female biology, then she is not a man. And being female should not be a handicap in life, but too often it is, because of sodding patriarchy.

BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 01:30

People have different views!

OkPedro · 11/12/2018 01:28

justanothernamechange
You come across as a loving mother. I'm not sure how I would cope with your situation. I'm currently talking to my dc (10 and 7) about being happy with who they are/ pink isn't only for girls/you can't be born in the wrong body. It's a bloody minefield. We've had so many years of "whats wrong with being a girl". Its easier to be a man. Imo gender dysphoria is a mental illness and has nothing to do with being born in the wrong body. I wish you and your child well x

LassWiADelicateAir · 11/12/2018 01:25

Would it be possible to explore radical feminism with her, probably gently?

It's very conceivable that an intelligent girl would attempt to identify as a boy/man, because of the obvious benefits of being a boy/man rather than a girl/woman, It makes sense

If I had a daughter I would steer her as far away as possible from radical feminism because of the sheer negativity it promotes about being a woman.

I don't really know what to say to the OP other than the only trans person I know in real life is ftm who started to transition in her/his mid 20s. He does not fit the "really would be a lesbian if allowed to" narrative (hetero as a woman and still attracted to men. He has a lesbian sister)

I've known this person all their life. She/he never seemed comfortable in herself as a child/ teenager. There was absolutely no pressure from his family to be feminine or conforming. He seems now the happiest I've known him.

BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 01:21

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justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 01:20

Because he's not prentending and I'm gonna leave this thread for tonight me thinks!!

OP posts:
BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 01:18

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justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 01:12

Which I/ and my son have acknowledged. I don't understand your reply.

OP posts:
BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 01:10

Then, indeed, you are justified in celebrating your daughter's transition to being a male!

Even though it is a biological impossibility.

justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 01:02

Sorry I thought I answered your question. The majority of the time male, and other people who know my son or don't.

OP posts:
BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 00:57

I ask again:

Do boys and men identify your child as male, or female?

justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 00:55

Sorry to comment again I hen ever I hit post there's a new question. No his mannerisms haven't changed he has always been a typical 'tomboy' and by mannerisms I don't just mean gender stereotypes such as toys and sport I mean how he acted I can't describe it in words but if you watched him how he walk talks, body language etc. Is that of a boy. In actual fact he often got 'misgendered' very young (6-10) as a boy and it hurt me but he never minded and actually liked it. I can see why know!

OP posts:
PositivelyPERF · 11/12/2018 00:55

Thank you for clarifying that OP.

justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 00:52

Please feel free to you can PM if you want to. He dosent mind, he understands that not everyone agrees or understands etc. And one way of doing this is asking questions.
I don't mind people saying she/daughter that's there choice, but as someone else commented if you were to see him in life he passes as a man he dosent often get misgendered, I think it helps he's rather tall, looks younger (so I should say he passes as a boy) and isn't skinny so dosent show hips/chest as much.

OP posts:
Calvinsmam · 11/12/2018 00:50

You say he has the mannerisms of a man, did his mannerisms change as he transitioned?

Lettera · 11/12/2018 00:49

OP, please thank your son for answering my question. There's lots more I would like to ask but I don't want to offend him!

justanothetnamechange · 11/12/2018 00:48

I would say in some ways it's so much Better you look at pictures of him much younger and know and everyone comments that he looks comfortable and happier especially just in his own skin.
I think what he ment and it's hard to say in text, is that he feels like a man, his mannerisms are that of a man how he acts etc. But he also says can he really say how a man or women thinks/feels when he only knows truly how he feels and does him having dysphoria make him think differently because he does think about passing and being gendered etc. When a man dosent think like that. It's the one thing he struggles to put into words -he likes to draw and I'm trying to put that into text so sorry if it dosent come across right.

OP posts:
BubonicTheHedgehag · 11/12/2018 00:47

You are still talking about your born daughter in a men's world. It's very conceivable that an intelligent girl would attempt to identify as a boy/man, because of the obvious benefits of being a boy/man rather than a girl/woman, It makes sense.
But wait and watch how men will treat your young daughter who identifies as a boy/man.

Do boys and men identify your child as male, or female?

PositivelyPERF · 11/12/2018 00:44

Who did your child go to for guidance and counselling, OP? I have a niece that has autism and is identifying as a man, but I’m afraid that I just continue to use her pet name, which she doesn’t have an issue with. I love her dearly but her family is very homophobic and I honestly think she’s simply a very insecure young lesbian. There are so many questions I’d like to ask, but I don’t want to offend you or your child.

I’ve noticed that some posters will refer to your child as your daughter/she/her. Is your child upset about ‘misgendering’? I’m waiting for the report button to burn out, as it’s ‘literal violence’. 🙄 That means that some well thought out answers will go puff and you’ll have a thread full of holes. If your child is grounded in reality, it might help the thread if you let Mumsnet know that your child doesn’t have any issue with that.

I hope your child finds whatever is missing from your child’s life. Good luck for the future.

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