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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why my transgender son dosent want self ID

258 replies

justanothetnamechange · 10/12/2018 21:16

HI all, so I've been wanting to make this post for a while but I hire honest Ive been scared to but tonight I'm going for it.
I'm a regular user but have obviously name changed for this.
So I frequent this board often but have never posted before, I am very much for women's rights- as many of us are!! My world turned upside down 6 years ago when my son started having conversations with with us reguarding his gender identity, tbh to begin with I constantly shot him down, but realised that there was no harm in changing his prounouns and name if that what makes him comfortable, although this choice toke a couple years and a lot of arguments! We didn't rush into anything, at school he used disabled toilets and he didn't do PE anyway as it was extra catch up. But wasn't going to do medication at this stage- he could make this choice as an adult if that's what he wanted. He went under CAMHS. That brings us to 2018 he is know 18 years old so it's all very much his choice. He is soon to be assed for testosterone.
I don't want this post to be to much about his journey and please don't go on about how he will never be biologically a man, he knows this he is a proud trans man. This is how self ID would ruin that.
it brings another side of the argument that people might not have always thought about.
My son has gone through a lot of challenges and mile stones to be where he is today they have been emotional.
He feels self ID would take away these milestones.
He recently got his passport through saying male, to do this we had to get two doctors reports and a MH report and proth he was living as his gender. When it came through he cried, celebrated and went for a drink. Wink
He was recently allowed to play for a male football team to do this he needed club approval, a doctors report party and proth he was going to medically transition. He needed to be present for a pane. He just played his first game it was celebrated and a good game to watch.
He works as a man and is treated as a man. But it took a lot of battles.
He is soon to apply for a GRC something he feels is the final step for social transition.
But when he tells people he is transgender he feels people accept him more when he says he's had to go through this. He feels genuine. He under stands sex segregation and respects men's boundary's. He only changes in the male changing room at football for example because they had a meeting about it and everyone said it was fine and even then he come in at the end when everyone's changed to take part in the talks etc.
He doesn't like the idea that someone could say I'm trans one day and get all the rights he's fort for. He doesn't like the idea that people who don't understand transition will come into sex segregated spaces. He doesn't like that he won't feel his long struggles will be looked on in the same way as they were before. This one may sound Selfish- He Dosent like that already stressed resources will become even more stressed as boundary's to be accepted will weaken. He wants to be accepted and knows he won't by everyone but in his opinion it happens more when he has that M in his passport and plus for his local team and when everyone can do this it's not as real. His struggles aren't as real. His battles aren't as real. His tears aren't as real. He feels even more invalidated. when he was 17 we talked about the GRC and he said how happy he'd feel when it came through and how he would have a weight lifted from his shoulders know someone wants to take away from this.
I hope this was right to post and makes sense!!
If anyone has any questions my son and me are happy to try and answer them.
I'm going to go put my hard hat on and hide in a corner just in case!

OP posts:
TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 11/12/2018 18:33

Transitioning certainly seems to have a lot to offer males who want to be sexually objectified and females who don't.

I'll eat my hat if this has nothing to do with messages from porn and from the wider culture about who is supposed to objectify whom.

Truckingonandon · 11/12/2018 17:54

I've honestly never come across that message in radical feminism.

LangCleg · 11/12/2018 16:41

Wearing a ‘wedding’ band was as far as my generation went.

Most of my mates did this.

That is a very perceptive post, Betty.

BettyDuMonde · 11/12/2018 16:27

I wonder if some young women are transitioning to get away from the sexual nightmare porn is forcing upon them - wouldn't blame them! Imagine seeing some of the normalised violent sex out there on the internet these days and realising that's what's in store for you

Y’know how women (all over the world, probably) invent fake boyfriends and husbands to make creepy dudes fuck off and leave them alone? Because simply saying you aren’t interested is interpreted as a challenge or makes you a target of abuse?

Sometimes I watch the polite, deferential young transmen on YouTube and can’t help but think they’ve taken it a step further and have actually become their own fake boyfriend in order to more efficiently ward off the creepy dudes.

Wearing a ‘wedding’ band was as far as my generation went.

Lettera · 11/12/2018 16:11

Yes Fairytale, it is indeed complete and utter nonsense.

I feel very sorry for you and your child OP having got embroiled in it.

Calvinsmam · 11/12/2018 15:32

The idea for example that self- loathing of one's body as a teenager is normal and natural.

I don’t think it’s normal, I think it’s very common. And I don’t think it’s natural, I think it’s a symptom of a society that places value on women by how useful they are to men.

BlindYeo · 11/12/2018 14:17

I wonder if some young women are transitioning to get away from the sexual nightmare porn is forcing upon them - wouldn't blame them! Imagine seeing some of the normalised violent sex out there on the internet these days and realising that's what's in store for you.

Maybe also the re-emergence of a more pink and sparkly overtly sexualised sex stereotype for women. Maybe also because of social contagion. Trans and non-binary blah blah for teenagers is clearly a fashion.

Grauniad · 11/12/2018 14:04

That abstract is a bit unclear, but it's talking about both thickening and degeneration of the womb lining (endometrium), plus unspecified changes to the muscle layer (myometrium).

(I do hate it when scientists write vague things about 'changes to' without specifying what changes, and when they run two things together without making it clear whether one is part of the other or an alternative to it.)

Datun · 11/12/2018 13:56

lass interesting take. So why do you think young women are transitioning in their droves?

LassWiADelicateAir · 11/12/2018 13:53

Radical feminism doesn't promote negativity about being female. How on earth do you come up with that conclusion?

Bit of a derail but from the way being a girl and a woman is portrayed on this forum. The idea for example that self- loathing of one's body as a teenager is normal and natural. The constant negativity and exaggeration of how awful being female is.

Datun · 11/12/2018 13:50

*does, not just

Datun · 11/12/2018 13:50

So just having a hysterectomy bring on the menopause? And all the rest of it, fragile bones, etc?

SlowlyShrinking · 11/12/2018 13:43

That’s a very worrying thread, Tallulah and also more confirmation that you can’t identify out of female biology

Datun · 11/12/2018 13:41

From that twitter link

A lengthy thread on a hitherto little known medical consequence of young women being prescribed testosterone, namely severe long-lasting pain during and after orgasm that can apparently only be alleviated by a hysterectomy.

Two high profile transmen started talking about it, and now it's becoming more widely known.

Can you imagine if men were prevented from having an orgasm due to terrible pain?

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 11/12/2018 13:39

The abstract upthread basically says that taking t long-term is likely to have effects on tissues and receptors in the female reproductive system, so in cases where people aren't having a hysterectomy anyway they need to be monitored for problematic changes including uterus atrophy and cancer risk. Also that we don't know enough about this and need more research.

OldCrone · 11/12/2018 13:34

living as the opposite sex essentially is changing your name and choosing an appearance that one would associate with the opposite sex

Are we still living in the 19th century?

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 11/12/2018 13:30

Fortunately OP's son isn't considering puberty blockers which I predict will be the source of most of the lawsuits in years to come.

Much more principled research on the long-term effects of testosterone on the female system needs to be done before we will know what the risks really are. But there is some anecdotal evidence of complications from T. Here is a relevant thread:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1071770722958229504.html

OldCrone · 11/12/2018 13:30

Pointing out to a mother that they should be terrified about "horrible complications" is not good.

Pointing out to a mother that they should be realistic about "horrible complications" is the right thing to do.

We shouldn't pretend that interfering with the endocrine system is risk free.

FairytaleOfWigan · 11/12/2018 13:29

I don’t understand how changing a name and clothes makes me ( a woman ) into a man. I already have a unisex name and only wear trousers. Doesn’t that mean I’m already a man and only have to change the Male/ female part of my legal documents?

It’s nonsense.

Datun · 11/12/2018 13:27

Someone who is a scientist might be able to translate this:

Conclusions
A large body of literature suggests an atrophic effect of long-term androgen therapy in FtM individuals treated with testosterone. Our data provide evidence that testosterone administration produces active endometrial and myometrial changes in women of reproductive age undergoing androgen therapy during the course of the process leading to sex reassignment surgery. This can be the result of the association of ovarian changes, responsible for a continuous, albeit at low concentration, estrogen production, leading to androgen upregulation in the myometrial expression of androgen receptors. The correlation between long-term androgen administration and uterine histological and receptor changes is scarce, and more studies are needed in order to establish the effect of such therapy on uterine tissues. This is extremely important in those patients requiring cross-sex hormone therapy for gender dysphoria without sex reassignment surgery, who may deserve surveillance due to the risk of endometrial degenerative changes due the apparent proliferative activity induced by androgen therapy.

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1028455916301280

cantgetridofthekids · 11/12/2018 13:08

lettera.....

living as the opposite sex essentially is changing your name and choosing an appearance that one would associate with the opposite sex

cantgetridofthekids · 11/12/2018 13:03

perhaps gendercritter can produce evidence for their statement as well?

Lettera · 11/12/2018 13:01

Can anyone (whether from personal experience or not) explain to me what it means to 'live as the opposite sex (or gender)' in the context of getting a new passport, driving licence or GRC?

LangCleg · 11/12/2018 12:44

Secondly this whole thing about complications is a falacy.

Evidence base, please. Tip: NHS GIDS for adolescents say the quality of evidence for interventions in young people is low or very low.

cantgetridofthekids · 11/12/2018 12:33

Knowing they are going to take unnecessary drugs and potentially end up with some horrible complications perhaps a decade down the line must be absolutely terrifying.

Your statement is uncalled for.

Firstly who defines "unnecessary"? For someone with GD the drugs are very much necessary. Would you say the same thing about anxiety drugs and drugs for depression ? Clearly you dont understand GD; telling a patient with GD they cant have the medication is in some cases akin to telling a depressed patient to "pull yourself together".

Secondly this whole thing about complications is a falacy. Patients are very closely monitored and whilst there can be a small increased risk depending on medication choice the reality is than its an acceptable level of risk given the alternative. In Male to Female patients on patch based HRT there are actually proven health benefits!

Pointing out to a mother that they should be terrified about "horrible complications" is not good.

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