Why my transgender son dosent want self ID

Do you have links to the evidence based studies showing this?

false hope being marketed to desperate victims.

Sorry but many many transsexual people have been able to move on with their lives following treatment. It isnt a magic cure but it can still make a huge difference.

when everything else fails, a medical transition IS the only way forward - and as I've said in previous threads, the GD never truly goes away even after transition

This is the most tragic part of all of this, that even the most brutal and gruelling medical path undertaken does not cure the recognised condition or symptoms. To me that makes it unethical and opposed to the tenet "First do no harm".

We are told not to discuss this lest we cause upset. This is wrong.

Traumatic stories of surgery are exactly that when the surgery is both a cause of ongoing injury and an incredibly convoluted delaying tactic to avoid the fact that it is not possible to change sex.

I have nothing but sympathy for those affected by this experimentation. As I said earlier I have years of experience of the personal hardship presented by living with incurable physical issues and as a result cannot comprehend the illogical brutality of false hope being marketed to desperate victims.

Hamster's posts are spot on. I agree and it is the difference between transsexual (who has GD) and transgender (who want to express stereotypes through changing lifestyle).

Thankfully the person this thread is about appears to be transsexual not transgender. I hope that they stay away from trans activism as it is an insidious force that will try to appropriate their experience and eat away at the sensible perception this family seem to have.

The single most idiotic thing this government is doing (and it has a lot of competition) is wanting to equivocate a law written 15 years ago for 5000 medically treated, psychiatrically assessed and counselled people who understand reality and know they need that kind of support for reasons of personal health and safety and their wider responsibility to the community at large.....

.....with 500,000 dreamers and gender benders and cross dressers and fetishists who have many different reasons for wanting to take part in a kind of role play fantasy. And who as a consequence have no desire for doctors or psychiatrists to 'interfere' in their 'rights' or care for how what they do might harm others.

Just reading the trans widows thread on here will show quickly why doing this is so foolish and heartbreaking.

These are two entirely different things with clearly different needs. Which is why the GRA was written as it was for transsexuals. And why it was able to see doctors accurately predict how many would qualify under it.

Why would any government conflate two entirely different things? perhaps it is a kind of trendy youth vote grab.

Just imagine if the law governing a woman's right for access to regular mammograms was rewritten so as to include those who like to stuff socks in their wife's bra whilst they are out so as to get a thrill. And they get that access without having to explain to anyone how or why they even want to do this....because it is their 'right' just to say so and make everyone agree.

But in essence that is exactly what is happening with self ID plans.

Hamster

Aww thank you Betty. I'm fine thank you. Still grumpy, incredibly bored now, sore and feeling a bit sorry for myself - but otherwise very much ok.

Just keeping a low profile about it all really.

Im finding this thread confusing. Your child is opposed to self I'd, but in a way they have self I'd.

Hey Hamster - informative, reasoned posts as always.

I’ve been waiting for you to pop back up on the board - I vaguely recalled you saying a while ago you had an upcoming surgery? And then no posts for a bit = mumsy Betty hoping you’re ok/worrying/waiting for news 😬

They see the "journey" as a fun little jaunt full of dresses and lipstick and fluffy kittens but it's anything but. It's more like Sisyphus rolling that bloody boulder up the hill

Yes. This trivialising of women’s lives makes me ( as a woman ) really angry . And I can see how it must be the same for people who battle with gender dysphoria.

All this “ the hardest part of being a woman is deciding what dress to wear “ shit.

Making surgery and hormones illegal won’t stop people doing them it’ll just drive a black market and push people into very very dangerous situations.

Exactly. People just "shopping" based off other people's doses they read on the internet is incredibly dangerous. I'd bet 99.99% haven't had baseline hormone levels checked via blood tests before they begin - let alone regular 3-6 month monitoring, or kidney/liver function tests.

I think during the course of my transition I had my hormone doses changed 8 times - until the correct maintenance dose was prescribed.

I am very much against self-medicating for several reasons, but if these people want to play Russian roulette with their bodies there's not a lot you can do to stop them unless you change the legislation on acquiring these drugs without a UK dr/specialist
prescription.

I would much rather people were accessing the surgery and hormones here as a last resort with therapy and support than going abroad or buying them off the internet.

Making surgery and hormones illegal won’t stop people doing them it’ll just drive a black market and push people into very very dangerous situations.

Also if you are sure you need hormones and surgery and you know they aren’t an option through the dr why would you bother going to the dr? Where you may have accessed therapy and got a clear picture of what actually it all entails and make an informed decision.

Hamster00

Your comments, as always, bring a voice of reality and sanity to this issue.

This is especially pertinent, given the TRA 'feelings' mantras:

And as a side note - the most unhelpful question these people love to throw at you is "...well do you 'feel' like a woman?" - to which my answer is always "what does a woman feel like? I feel like 'me'..." - at which point they try to drill down to hackneyed old stereotypes.

Those with GD (transsexual) it is believed only represent 2% of the transgender pot. Within this group transition is often not the first choice....counselling, CBT etc. is also used.

For me, medical transition was the last resort after seeing multiple psychiatrists, psychologists, and counsellors. Insofar as CBT, its only real value was to limit self-harming/negative behaviours - not to tackle the GD itself.

When I was a kid, there was no Mermaids or similar. I ended up seeing a child psychologist/educational psychologist, but even if there was "a Mermaids", my mother - who was a very sensible and pragmatic woman, would have never fallen for this "new ideology". She thought I'd "grow out of it", and happily supported my GNC (probably thinking I'd grow up to be gay tbh).

The problem is that with "true" GD, it doesn't "go away", it just gets worse - no matter how many mental health people you end up sitting in front of or how many coping mechanisms get thrown at you.

And as a side note - the most unhelpful question these people love to throw at you is "...well do you 'feel' like a woman?" - to which my answer is always "what does a woman feel like? I feel like 'me'..." - at which point they try to drill down to hackneyed old stereotypes.

HOWEVER, when everything else fails, a medical transition IS the only way forward - and as I've said in previous threads, the GD never truly goes away even after transition. It's eased dramatically, but it still "sneaks up" on you when you least expect it.

It's a disgusting mental illness. It's all-consuming and all-pervasive, and at its worst makes it nigh impossible to function on both a cognitive and social level.

Be under no illusion - taking hormones carries significant risks: The HRT can cause blood clots, strokes, heart disease, and the anti-androgens can INCREASE depression, cause suicidal ideation, bring about anaemia - to name but a view. Any good Dr will schedule regular blood tests to monitor kidney/liver function as they're the first to be put under stress.

I think this is ONE (there are many) of the reasons I get annoyed at the blue-haired "gender feelz" brigade - who just trivialise GD into (paraphrasing) "I feel like a woman so I am a woman". It's that "aquisition"... and that's not what GD is. They see the "journey" as a fun little jaunt full of dresses and lipstick and fluffy kittens but it's anything but. It's more like Sisyphus rolling that bloody boulder up the hill.

cant okay well while I don’t think hormone treatment for AGPs should be funded by the state, how can we legitimately stop them from buying hormones on the internet etc? And why do we want to stop them? If some middle-aged guy gets turned on by him growing boobs, what is the public interest in stopping this? All I care about is that the law doesn’t then declare that he is a woman and has access to female spaces. I don’t object or even care about how he chooses to express himself. If he then regrets taking estrogen, I can’t see the difference between that and someone who regrets having gigantically large breast implants.

funky not all those who start medical transition have GD. There is a subtype of transsexual known as autogynephilic transsexual where transition is sought for sexual arousal. There are a number of cases of people going through full SRS for that reason.

cant yes I am talking about transsexuals with GD. Not people who take neither hormones nor have surgery. Surely the debate is only re those with GD because those without are unlikely to want to modify their bodies extensively (preferring to refer to girl-dick etc instead)? I must say I am a bit confused. Are you saying that adult people without gender dysphoria are being pushed into medical transition?

how do we treat people with gender dysphoria

Remember that patients with GD represent only 2% of the so called transgender umbrella.

Only 30% of those with GD seek surgical transition.

So that under 1% of transgender that seek surgery.

Why does the trans community actively works to PREVENT statistically valid data collectionand research into treatment efficacy and other treatment modalities?

This is the problem "the trans community".... so many things are lumped in together that it becomes meaningless. The voice goes to the majority group under that umbrella. This means that the biggest voice under that umbrella goes to those who are not medicalised and who have absolutely no desire to be so.

There is valid data in relation to GD treatment options.

I've noticed one interesting think ....

Typically, the transgender person likes to identify as transgender. They talk of lady penises and TWAW. The want to do whatever they want and none should challenge or say otherwise.

The transsexual person struggles with GD. They only seek to find a way to address that. Quite often they hate the journey they are on but find it necessary to find peace. All they want to do is get on with life quietly.

So that I am clear, you think that adult patients should be denied medical transition ‘for their own good’? I am not trying to be goady but how do we treat people with gender dysphoria then?

My view is let them do what they want and focus on the rights to women’s single sex spaces. I don’t think there is any other treatment that magically cures gender dysphoria and I would be very reluctant to get involved in questions of medical treatment for adults where I (or you guys) have little to no experience or understanding of the complexities involved. Let that be a matter between doctors and their mentally competent patients. Adults choose to permanently alter their bodies in many ways eg cosmetic surgery. We may not choose that path ourselves but that doesnt mean we are entitled to stop it.

I do think the first line of treatment whether private or NHS should always be counselling though but I have personal experience of how ineffective counselling can be for MH conditions. It’s by no means a magic solution and not is anything else.

But why is medical transition the preferred treatment? Because lobbying organisations have demanded that.

With the modern transgender agenda transition is not about the treatment of Gender Dysphoria .... it's often about alternative lifestyle and sexual fetish. You can't indulge a sexual fetish through counselling !

Those with GD (transsexual) it is believed only represent 2% of the transgender pot. Within this group transition is often not the first choice....counselling, CBT etc. is also used.

Everything Materialist just said.

What about other questionable medical treatments, like vaginal mesh? Should we not talk about possible problems with this, because it might be ‘paternalistic’?
Or thalidomide? Should we just keep quiet and let pregnant women make their own decisions regarding it?

I am sure there are issues with it and it doesn’t help everyone to feel better. However, these are adult patients you’re talking about. Gender reassignment surgery and hormones have been around far far longer than pressure groups have and I am not so sure that there is absolutely no evidence that medical transition can be beneficial.
I wholeheartedly agree with preventing children from being put on hormones or have surgery but I can’t be as paternalistic when it comes to adults who actively seek out medical reassignment. It’s very easy to say ‘be happy in your body’ when you don’t have gender dysphoria. I am all for people expressing their identity how they choose. I don’t think medical transition makes a man a woman or vice versa and i don’t think it should permit entry to female spaces, but I am not interested in stopping adults from doing something that they believe will make them feel better.

Hestia we do allow adult anorexics to make their own decisions. Nobody force-feeds them unless they are sectioned. We also allow depressed people to commit suicide, unless they seek help or are sectioned. Whatever you think about trans people, for many of them, medical transition is the preferred treatment and the one that reduces gender dysphoria the most.

Do I agree with giving hormones to children? Of course not. Should a fully informed adult be allowed to make the decision to take hormones or have surgery? Yes, they should.

As for the ‘all trans people are narcissistic’ line from River, I don’t know what to say. I am gender-critical and I want to retain single sex protections for women. However, I see statements like that as below the belt really. If you made a statement like that about eg people suffering from depression, you’d be lambasted. I am glad it was deleted.