School trans inclusive policy

YY Rowantrees and a lot of these girls are making a disastrous assumption, based on fanfic etc, that gay males will want them as romantic or sexual partners. Not gonna happen. They’re setting themselves up for hard rejection.

Recent situation when female identifying as gay transman challenged singe-sex gay sauna:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410716-Transman-kicked-out-of-gay-sauna

Excellent thread. Children are being groomed - and I use the term deliberately. Never before have we allowed 'political' organisations into schools to try to influence children in their beliefs and sexual presentations. The fall out from all this will be immense and catastrophic for those children.

and a lot of these girls are making a disastrous assumption, based on fanfic etc, that gay males will want them as romantic or sexual partners.

WTF?

Is trans fanfic that common now?

"Slash" fanfic was very popular when I was a teenager, and I thought it was understood that, while heterosexual women like to read about gay men, and perhaps like to fantasise about being in an equal relationship with a man, gay men are only interested in other gay men.
Because, obviously, they are gay and that's what being gay means.

Men who are attracted to the female body are called heterosexual.

'Queer Kid Stuff imagines a kinder and more equal future through highly-accessible education and entertainment for kids ages 3+

LGBTQ+ educational webseries for children ages 3+ hosted by a tie-wearing queer lady, Lindsay, and her non-binary best-stuffed friend, Teddy. Gender Studies 101 meets Mr. Rodgers’ Neighborhood!'

T is for TRANS! - Transgender: QUEER KID STUFF #12
119,688 views

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=57&v=Kq8DRz3yXLI

full range of videos:
www.youtube.com/channel/UCecsVoeJcsXbAra7Sl4mOPw/videos

I consider myself pretty well informed, but this threw me for a loop.

Yes, me too.
I only became aware of this recently.

She then told me she had a crush on a male actor. This confused me a bit tbh. I knew she was using a male name herself, and a few of the other girls at the school are also going by boy's names. The difference is, she's been brainwashed into believing she's a gay male. She was incredibly confused.

There are a lot of young females in certain social media networks identifying as 'gay' & 'trans boys'

The extent of this hasn't been realised yet.

FlawedAmazon

A perceptive post that a PP put on this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3448102-why-my-transgender-son-dosent-want-self-id?pg=5

Y’know how women (all over the world, probably) invent fake boyfriends and husbands to make creepy dudes fuck off and leave them alone? Because simply saying you aren’t interested is interpreted as a challenge or makes you a target of abuse?

Sometimes I watch the polite, deferential young transmen on YouTube and can’t help but think they’ve taken it a step further and have actually become their own fake boyfriend in order to more efficiently ward off the creepy dudes.

Wearing a ‘wedding’ band was as far as my generation went.

Apparently she's been told she's male because of the way she presents - short hair, jeans and shirts. Basically gender non-conforming. It then turned out that almost every single girl in their year has been convinced they're bisexual or trans. They don't even understand what these terms mean - they're still kids ffs!

Do you know who's told them this?

The trans talk my DD had in year 7 was wildly inappropriate. It conflicted sex, gender roles and presentation and sexuality. The children were also told that it's possible to change sex by taking medicine. They also encouraged the children to state their sexuality and gender.

Many parents complained, and I don't think the school ran that talk again.

Apparently she's been told she's male because of the way she presents - short hair, jeans and shirts.

So just like a normal girl growing up in the 70s or 80s. What on earth has gone wrong?

My remarks have only been related to changing facilities.

And misrepresenting what happens in schools that implement the guidance that the OP was asking about, let's not forget that bit. It's an urban legend that schools adopting this guidance actually implement it, didn't you say?

Our kids deserve better than this

I couldn't agree more, OP, I couldn't agree more.

This thread, I imagine, has been quite the education in the ways people who think it's perfectly fine to give disinformation to children and who don't care anything for their boundaries, go about it.

And changing rooms are surely more traumatic for children with actual disfigurements that they can be bullied over than for perfectly normal-looking trans kids.

Exactly. There's nothing 'wrong' or different about trans children's bodies. The changing rooms are segregated because of the difference between male and female bodies, so there's no reason for trans children to use anything other than the appropriate changing room for their sex. If they suffer from anxiety about other children seeing them undressed, that is a separate issue, and could be an issue for any of the other children as well.

What I'm saying is that trans children don't need different changing rooms from their peers just because they are trans.

Though as I understand it there is a tendency for girls to be quite accepting on a day to day level of transgirls in such as PE.

Well, we had PE with the boys at my school, anyways. So anyone identifying as trans but staying out of the other sex's changing rooms wouldn't have made a difference.

That's not saying it wouldn't make a difference at a school where PE is segregated by sex.

Our teacher did use a different scale for grading girls and boys, and I would have been rather miffed if gender identity had overridden biology there, even though I just so scraped by and never had a chance to excel, anyway.

Though as I understand it there is a tendency for girls to be quite accepting on a day to day level of transgirls in such as PE.

Do you think this might be because they've been taught that they should 'be nice', even if they actually feel uncomfortable?

Though as I understand it there is a tendency for girls to be quite accepting on a day to day level of transgirls in such as PE. Not if the blighters were put in the girls teams, you'd think, and hope

Where is your evidence for this 'tendency'?

I've made it clear often enough that I am very unhappy indeed with transgirls taking part in award carrying sports with girls.

Why award carrying?

If sport is separated by sex its for a reason.
Many sports at primary age can be mixed sex.
The point at which males and females play sport separately are for safety, fairness & dignity.

If boys play sports with girls its a mixed sex event.

Apologies for the extra y, there KayM2.

KayyM2

I read your comment " I have outlined ways that the Brighton Policy Document could , with thought , planning, and resources, be put into practice to enable a trans pupil to take part in sport/ PE/ games in the " chosen" group without compromising the safety and peace of mind of the other pupils." as referring to participation ("take part in sport/PE/games..."), rather than changing.

Because getting changed isn't actually 'taking part in sport/PE/games in the chosen group',is it?

This was why I asked for someone to point me at your suggestions.

Kay, why do you think pe is sex segregated in schools?

I did not say that there were ways to ensure that girls would not be disadvantaged by male bodied trans-identified pupils. There may be, but I did not outline any . My remarks have only been related to changing facilities.

I've made it clear often enough that I am very unhappy indeed with transgirls taking part in award carrying sports with girls.

I have not addressed the issue of whether some girls would be demotivated by taking part in games sessions with trans girls. I think it is quite possible that some/ many might be. And we would not know.

Though as I understand it there is a tendency for girls to be quite accepting on a day to day level of transgirls in such as PE. Not if the blighters were put in the girls teams, you'd think, and hope.

What I DID say was that it was quite possible ( with outline examples off the top of my head, based on extensive experience of integrating disabled children into mainstream) for transgirls (is there such a word? ) to change before and after games lessons with privacy and decency for all. MOST ESPECIALLY for the girls, who, as I also said, represent the majority of those present .

Can someone point me at the post where Kay gave suggestions as to how a boy who identified as a girl could play sport and/or compete with the girls in ways which would not disadvantage or compromise the girls' participation?

I genuinely cannot see such suggestions.