Letter in the Times - Plea To The Trans Lobby from group of transsexuals

I have made it quite clear in many previous posts that I support an INCREASE in medicalisation of transsexualism and transition only ever as a last resort after multi disciplinary therapeutic intervention.

Does that include a psychological assessment of the attitudes a prospective transitioner has towards women?

Simple question. Yes or no?

Personally I dont. I blame the TRA's entirely for their skillful appropriation and maniupulation of the GRA and the Equality Act.

Why not challenge those involved?

Stephen Whittle and Christine Burns might be people to speak with.
(you'll find that they have been actively advocating for self-id)

I have made it quite clear in many previous posts that I support an INCREASE in medicalisation of transsexualism and transition only ever as a last resort after multi disciplinary therapeutic intervention.

And that's great, but it does absolutely nothing to help the woman or girl who sees a male person in a space where no male person should be and is absolutely bloody terrified, or if lucky maybe "just" deeply uncomfortable and angry that her right to choose whether or not she's naked around male people she doesn't know has been removed. I know that this is a very fundamental thing that many TS people are completely unwilling to face, the fact that often people can still tell they are male and if so they are not necessarily going to be perceived as any less threatening than any other male, but unless and until the people in question do face that they will simply not be able to comprehend what they are asking of women and girls and why it's unfair of them to do so.

Personally I dont. I blame the TRA's entirely for their skillful appropriation and maniupulation of the GRA and the Equality Act.

You seem intent on ignoring the reality that many of those who were trans-rights activists and lobbied for the GRA are transsexuals.

Links and suggestions to understand this better were provided yesterday on this thread.

A thread which many new to the issues have found helpful:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Datun's post on the first page is useful.

If any transsexuals are unhappy about that developing trend then women in general, or GC feminists in particular, are the wrong people to blame.

Personally I dont. I blame the TRA's entirely for their skillful appropriation and maniupulation of the GRA and the Equality Act.

Also this has been said many times but again, the current wave of interest in rolling back the access transsexuals were granted to women's spaces (without ever asking women how we felt about that or considering the impact on us much at all) was prompted by TRA overreach. If any transsexuals are unhappy about that developing trend then women in general, or GC feminists in particular, are the wrong people to blame. Most of us were in the past willing to compromise. Many are not any more.

No answer to my question about adding in an extra layer to psychological gatekeeping, I see, cant.

That is unnecessary. I didnt see your comment and I cant be expected to comment to everything.

I have made it quite clear in many previous posts that I support an INCREASE in medicalisation of transsexualism and transition only ever as a last resort after multi disciplinary therapeutic intervention.

As I qualified, I was not saying in every individual.

There has always been fetish associated with gender dysphoria.

Not always.

There is a massive difference between those with a diagnosis of "Gender Identity Disorder from Childhood" (which is pre puberty) and "Late Onset Gender Dysphoria" by the modern criteria.

Ive been transsexual since primary school - well before I even knew what sex was.

By that argument you could argue that any minority group should get nothing. The majority should never be inconvenienced and the minority should suffer in silence. Fine, you disagree with where things are at but its certainly not ego.

That you don't recognise the influence of ego, doesn't mean that it isn't relevent.

As I said, self-awareness is important.

If you think that "inconvenienced" is a fair description of what's being asked of women then either you haven't been listening at all or you're having a hard time grasping the concept that women are people.

No answer to my question about adding in an extra layer to psychological gatekeeping, I see, cant.

you would know that Debbie regularly gets a hard time and is challenged on here. Doesn't flounce off in high dudgeon, however.

And yet never quite get around to saying what they think should happen do they? In fact, they quite often disappear for a long period when challenged on what the solution should be and whether they should be using female facilities.

There has always been fetish associated with gender dysphoria.

To be very clear, I absolutely don't mean in every individual.

the reality is that people can't change sex. The "debate" is about the extent to which society should be forced to pretend that it doesn't know that in order to make trans people happier.

Accepted I cant change sex and never will be able to. TWAW is bollocks of the highest magnitude.

Whilst I would agree that for the majority of transgender people it is about simply making them happier, there is still the core group for whom the 2004 GRA was for - a group of people with severe and debilitating issues.

It must take a hell of an ego to look at that and think "well sure but what about what I need?", when the formula is you versus half the population.

By that argument you could argue that any minority group should get nothing. The majority should never be inconvenienced and the minority should suffer in silence. Fine, you disagree with where things are at but its certainly not ego.

Although there are some exceptions I'm pretty sure fetish is not the motivation for the majority of young female transitioners at all. Again, sex is always relevant.

Frankly Im a person with mental health issues just trying to survive the best way they can at a time where society has turned GD in a fetish.

Empathy, respect for others and self-awareness are key.

There has always been fetish associated with gender dysphoria.

True that, Rowan, and I shouldn't be engaging.

Interesting that Debbie Hayton, who is routinely fawned over, has a fairly similar 'I'm entitled to...' viewpoint to Kay, but is a lot more careful with their language to avoid upsetting you lot.

If you paid attention rather than just heading in to be rude every now and again, you would know that Debbie regularly gets a hard time and is challenged on here. Doesn't flounce off in high dudgeon, however.

I stand with women over the current arguments and I do beleive a lot of weight is added when TS people are also seen to be objecting to modern rhetoric. I am not trying to enforce views on anyway - I want to stop the runaway train that is destroying womens rights and trivilialising my own identity.

You're not standing with women, you are insisting that they validate and protect 'your own identity' that's clear from the posts on this thread you've ignored and the content of the posts you've made.

*Arguments aside the fact is my identity has been stolen and I am expected just to step back and accept that

Can you not see the irony in that?*

I see that womens rights are very much being stolen but not by me. Frankly Im a person with mental health issues just trying to survive the best way they can at a time where society has turned GD in a fetish.

If what you mean is not "I can't be a man because I'm not like this" then it would probably be helpful not to argue that people shouldn't consider you a man because you're not like that.

Ultimately the frame of reference thing doesn't really matter because the reality is that people can't change sex. The "debate" is about the extent to which society should be forced to pretend that it doesn't know that in order to make trans people happier. It's almost always women and girls who're being asked to make concessions to that fundamental untruth that harm us and put us in danger and remove our right to privacy and bodily autonomy.

It must take a hell of an ego to look at that and think "well sure but what about what I need?", when the formula is you versus half the population.

Interesting that Debbie Hayton, who is routinely fawned over, has a fairly similar 'I'm entitled to...' viewpoint to Kay, but is a lot more careful with their language to avoid upsetting you lot.

Based on previous contributions on the board I'm inclined to view this as deliberately stirring.

'you lot' seems rather uncivil.

having empathy & respect for others who are not connected with my own circumstances along with self-awareness means that I do not impose my own (valid) feelings in places where frankly its innapropriate.

I stand with women over the current arguments and I do beleive a lot of weight is added when TS people are also seen to be objecting to modern rhetoric. I am not trying to enforce views on anyway - I want to stop the runaway train that is destroying womens rights and trivilialising my own identity.

The only thing I disagree on is asking for the GRA to be repealed and moving things backwards.