Letter in the Times - Plea To The Trans Lobby from group of transsexuals

and so we go on..... whatever people say, do or write, unless it fits with the agenda that other people want,

Was the person clearly bright because they were saying what you would like them to say?

Better than focusing on the poor kids who NEVER get the pronouns wrong, because "granny" wouldn't like that at all.

Im doing that focusing on the wrong thing again aren't i

How do you know they are bright?

Clearly bright...

It's like the appropriate of "mother" squared, isn't it? A granny is the matriarch of the family. There is no such thing as a male matriarch, and no male person can possibly fill the role a gran plays in the lives of her granddaughters in particular.

Not that I'd expect the male person in question to have any clue what that role is or why they can't fill it.

it is because you are not apologetic about who you are

Nah

I reckon theyve got that one wrong

I find the appropriation of 'granny' quite grating. For a woman to be a granny means going through 2 women's rites of passage - giving birth and menopause. For a male to refer to themselves as granny feels like I'm being flicked the bird as a woman - to me anyway.

Which is curious as this was made very clear a few pages back & acknowledged.

At this point I'm just curious how many different ways Kay can find to say that Kay doesn't care what women think or what impact Kay's behavior has on us.

Ladies, know your place!

Someone who is clearly rather bright said to me tonight, re this thread, when I said that though I could quite see why people find my didactic writing style gets on their nerves, I wondered why things I write are just plain hated, the answer came; It is because you are not apologetic about who you are."

and so we go on..... whatever people say, do or write, unless it fits with the agenda that other people want, will be seen as evasions, attempts to make everything about themselves, attempts to close down the debate/ silence some other person or persons. Although heavens to Murgatroyd, no-one is being silenced here, are they?

So, ( for example), if one tries to address issued about loos in response to many posts about loos, someone will then ask" don't you realises that this is about more than loos? ".... It's quite amusing, in it's way, this tactic.

Someone who is clearly rather bright said to me tonight, re this thread, when I said that though I could quite see why people find my didactic writing style gets on their nerves, I wondered why things I write are just plain hated, the answer came; It is because you are not apologetic about who you are."

And is there truth in this? Possibly. Probably. Yes, many of us " old hands" are no longer apologetic about being a TS woman. Or man. We dealt with all that 50 years ago. .
Trannsexual people do not have to " ask the permissions" of women to become as nearly as we can, female. F to m people do not have to ask the permission of men to start the process of becoming as much a male as they can achieve.

And if we do " ask permission"; who of? Every year on January 1st? Are we given a pass?

The letter was about how the TRAs should behave , not about whether they are allowed to be female/ trans/ young/ immature.

For my part, I have heard Prof Freedman speak, and read her words. I don't think that everything she says is 100% helpful, tbh, but so what. People stopping free speech and the expression of different opinions is something to be resisted to the hilt. People bullying, threatening assaults, damaging property is just not acceptable in our society.

I tend towards Lang's view that if someone was a selfish arsehole prior to transition they'll still be one afterwards, whereas if they were a decent human being that too will probably remain the case. Leopards, spots, etc.

Hamster00 of course.

What it certainly has done is brought transsexuals who share the same concerns, together and that’s no mean feat. Herding cats is easier!

I personally was rather amused by Boudica's swipe at a certain individual who identifies as a lawyer...

I have to agree with what everyone has said in the last few posts, and Boudica, the letter was fantastic. I'm sorry you've suffered so much abuse at the hands of the TRAs.

(As a small aside, and not related, R0wan could I possibly send you a little private message in relation to something we were talking about on another thread the other night?)

Basically this transsexual v “trans” schism has been bubbling and building up for some time. It’s regrettable that women have been put at risk. Absolutely heartbreaking to be honest.

(Search RollOnFriday and the user name if you don't know what happened.)

Thanks

If I can clarify, what I meant by private concerns was, in my case, seeing how this debate affects me in real life, on a day to day basis. Those worried and concerns won’t necessarily be understood or appreciated by someone who hasn’t been through a successful transition.

That in no way trumps (no pun intended) the valid concerns women have.

angry

Just about everything is dragged back to the bogs!!

Agree with the others

I dont think they were referring to you boudica

It's never been JUST about the toilets and if you dont "get" that then you're utterly missing the point, and frankly being self-centred.

Every time I try to talk about changing rooms someone tries to steer the discussion back to toilets. Almost as if they know that while they might be able to guilt trip some women into reluctantly compromising on the toilets issue the insistence on being in spaces where women and girls are naked is absolutely indefensible.

I don't think the comment was about you - from where i'm sitting boudica