Letter in the Times - Plea To The Trans Lobby from group of transsexuals

Stephen Whittle was a member of the Beaumont Society for transvestites, yet Whittle is a true transsexual right?

I find it a bit hard to draw the line.

When people make the distinction between TS and TG is it making a distinction between 'homosexuals' with dysphoria and AGPs? Or is it between hormones and surgery against superficial changes?

Morgane Oger is transsexual I believe?

Very influential and powerful in Canada.

TS people have been front and centre in the movement to remove women's rights. The shouty TGs are, really, just their useful idiots.

Esther Betts said "There are definitely older radicals who work to keep younger trans people afraid of the dialogue in order to control them, it's a bit sick" twitter.com/elmskid/status/1070416197919879180?s=20

Corrinna speaks similarly of their being older, contolling people in the US in this video:

quite a few of those named are fairly new to the cause and I assume are who Cant considers as TG not TS

Although the long-standing transsexual trans rights activists with considerable influence seem happy to work closely with them for what appears to be 'shared cause'

Jess Bradley explained this though in their contribution to the book, 'To My Trans Sisters'
edited by Charlie Craggs (publ Oct 2017)

"The first time I changed the world was when I told my mates to call me she rather than he. I literally constructed a new world where its possible to understand myself as a genderqueer woman, despite being asigned male at birth simply by changing the language to describe myself. This is why language and pronouns are so important. Its about creating a world in which trans people are allowed to exist"

"And I can honestly say that the work that trans people do for each other means that, for me at least, the trans community is a beautiful place to be. Despite our differences, we have each others' backs"

the book is described:
"Dedicated to trans women everywhere, this inspirational collection of letters written by successful trans women shares the lessons they learnt on their journeys to womanhood, celebrating their achievements and empowering the next generation to become who they truly are.

Written by politicians, scientists, models, athletes, authors, actors, and activists from around the world, these letters capture the diversity of the trans experience and offer advice from make-up and dating through to fighting dysphoria and transphobia.

By turns honest and heartfelt, funny and furious or beautiful and brave, these letters send a clear message of hope to their sisters: each of these women have gone through the struggles of transition and emerged the other side as accomplished, confident women; and if we made it sister, so can you!"

source:
books.google.co.uk/books?id=gNspDwAAQBAJ

Part of the reason the GRA was pushed through so easily, with little concern about the damage to women and girls rights and safety, is because is was not given the publicity it needed. No one can state their objections if they don't know it's happening.

But it's obvious now that the GRA was flawed. Transpeople don't think it meets their needs, that why they want to make changes to it, less than 15 years after it was established. And it's clear from the feminist perspective that it conflicts with our needs.

But times have changed and many women do know about the planned changes and can object. That's why 'no debate' and the threats and intimidation is happening.

Stephen Whittle?
Christine Burns?

Sarah Brown (STonewall & Lib Dems)

Helen Belcher
Roz Kaveney
Jane Fae
Sophie Cook
Natacha Kennedy
Stephanie Haydon
Charlie Kiss
Giuliana Kendal
Alex Sharpe
Bex Stinson

ZuttZeVootEeeVro Tue 18-Dec-18 04:41:25 comment this morning is getting lost. (previous page)

re-posting
"Of course it's good to highlight and condemn extreme behaviour. It's never right to attempt to stop people meeting and talking by intimidation and violence.

The problem with only focusing on these examples is that it is extreme behaviour by a few people who do not hold any direct power or influence.

When people in the media, policians and policy makers, using less extreme language and no platforming, paint women as bigots for wanting sex segregation, it is dangerous, because these people can remove sex segregation and safeguarding policies.

I'm far more concerned that Shami Chakrabart said
"How can I put it - I am not the sex police. I don't want to police the borders between these segregated sexes and I'm not going to say to any refugee or migrant to my sex that you don't belong over here. And you know what, if you lock the house too tightly, you might just die in the fire. And what I want is not to be more segregated but to be less so, and I want us, in the end, to all be human."

than I am that some random 18 year old wearing a scarf over their face and holding a placard.

Also, I'm worried about the normalisation of male people in previously female only spaces, because it stops women and girls being able to define their boundaries.

It's important to realise that activism takes many forms, and it isn't just threats of violence that are dangerous."

Truth is not an absolute. Your truth and my truth are not the same thing. We have different upbringings, different perspectives etc..

You can't hear me.

QED.

We wish to talk about the thread topic, which is intimidation and threats of violence against women and girls and how to deal with it. Please stop obstructing us. It's not about you.

Can't
Please stop.
You are preventing women from discussing the ways that women have been and are being silenced on this thread.

Please stop derailing this important discussion about how women are prevented from speaking, intimidated, threatened and abused by trans rights activists.

I responded to a point made about how TS people were at the forefront of trans activism which is very much what the discussion was about.

My point was about the increasing meaningless of the TS label as time moves on and that TS people do still stand apart from TG.

Cant
Please stop derailing this important discussion about how women are prevented from speaking, intimidated, threatened and abused by trans rights activists.

? Why can you not allow women to talk to each other about the best way forward in this without attempting to make them centre you

Noone is centering themselves at all. Many have said on MN that the input of TS people is welcome.

Now when you don't like something I say you tell me I shouldn't be on this forum.

I realise this is unpleasant to hear. It is, nonetheless, the truth.

Truth is not an absolute. Your truth and my truth are not the same thing. We have different upbringings, different perspectives etc..

*The reality is I think for all of us that until an issue affects us personally we try not to get involved

What a crappy thing to believe. Surely we should all do our best to make things better for those less fortunate or more vulnerable than ourselves?*

Please don't misunderstand what I'm saying.

There are thousands upon thousands of issues where things need to be addressed and changed and nobody can know about or understand all of them. It doesn't mean I don't care - far from it.

Cant - if you can't understand why I ask this question, you are demonstrating why you are part of the problem. I don't know how we could explain this to you more clearly. We've tried a dozen or more times now. It's clear you can't hear us. Until you can, you will remain part of the problem.

I realise this is unpleasant to hear. It is, nonetheless, the truth.

The reality is I think for all of us that until an issue affects us personally we try not to get involved.

Absolutely not true.

There are some people whose concern is solely for themselves of course.

The only reason I have chosen at times to get involved is because the proposed changes put my own safety at risk in the future.

And yet again, you return the thread to you.

We are trying to get the thread back to topic, which is about how to counter intimidation of and threats against women and girls.

Why have you spent the entire thread obstructing this discussion? Why can you not allow women to talk to each other about the best way forward in this without attempting to make them centre you?

Cant
Have you read the posts above yours?
The discussion had moved to recognising the various range & forms of dangerous intimidation and tactics towards women.

Ignoring this can seem increasingly like de-railing /preventing discussion.

*The only reason I have chosen at times to get involved is because the proposed changes put my own safety at risk in the future

Yes, your focus is clear.*

The reality is I think for all of us that until an issue affects us personally we try not to get involved. Some people like conflict and could start a row in a mirror but for many of us we simply want a quiet life.

I appreciate many will disagree but I believe that part of the reason the GRA and parts of the Equality Act went through without much objection was the fact no one could see the effect it would have.

I question anyone who says they are TS yet campaigns for the TG umbrella, demedicalisation and self ID

Stephen Whittle?
Christine Burns?

Sarah Brown (STonewall & Lib Dems)

these transsexual trans-rights activists have and are playing a central role

links have been provided on many occasions on this and other threads.

ignoring this and continuing to re-state is not really conducive to civilised discussion about serious matters.

The only reason I have chosen at times to get involved is because the proposed changes put my own safety at risk in the future

Yes, your focus is clear.
It is reasonable and unstandable to be concerned for one's own safety.

Engaging in what has and is contributing to the current situation is likely more productive.

FWR is not responsible.

But, as outlined over and over again in this thread, TS people have been front and centre in the movement to remove women's rights.

I accept that some TS have but I also believe there are those who have chosen to label themselves as TS to afford themselves credibility. I have yet to meet a genuine TS person that seeks to remove womens rights although I'm sure they do exist. I question anyone who says they are TS yet campaigns for the TG umbrella, demedicalisation and self ID. I went through hell with medical assessments but Im glad I did and it was certainly necessary.

By definition the vast majority of TS people simply seek a quiet life and to fade into the background and so you never hear from them. The only reason I have chosen at times to get involved is because the proposed changes put my own safety at risk in the future.

That said I think we have reached a point where even the GD diagnosis is losing its meaning. There are those getting diagnosed now that almost certainly wouldn't have been 20 years ago. My diagnosis is a dual diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder in Childhood and Transexualism..... I claim the TS label because I have TS as a formal diagnosis of TS. That however is not necessary to call yourself TS.